Natasha Atchley

Warning. This episode contains graphic crime scene detail as well as talk of sexual assault. It may be sensitive for some listeners. All witnesses, purchase of interest, and suspects are considered innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Hi, guys, welcome to Primetime Crime. It's Kylie. Would you even believe that? Earlier this week I had literally no voice. I I'm so glad my voice came back. I had, I guess, like a little bout of laryngitis. I sounded horrible, like for a day and a half, I sounded horrible, and then my voice started to come back. And here we are. But there is so much talk about this week for right now in true crime, so we are going to go ahead and jump right into it. So let's start with Elc Murda. First of all, the Lifetime movie that Lifetime made about the murdal case. Obviously, anything made for Lifetime is going to be a little sensationalized and not always super factual. But I did like the movie. I'm not Gonna Lie, it was two parts. I think Bill Pullman did a fantastic job playing Elec and really portraying him. I feel like how he was unraveling in a few days leading up to the murders. I think he did a really good job. So for that reason, I liked watching the movie. I thought it was interesting just to kind of see that perspective on things. But I thought it was I thought it was fair. I thought it was pretty good. And then another murdon news on Tuesday, his legal team won a victory from the South Carolina Court and basically the state Supreme Court has paused Elex's appeal to allow him to seek a new trial. And all of that new trial happening stuff is because of the county cork clerk, which is a tongue twister meddling with the jury during the trial. So as of right now, the appeal itself is on hold in order for them to address the allegation that the clerk had any kind of power in persuading the jury of his guilt during the trial. So that's going to be a whole legality thing we're looking at probably a bit before anything more comes out on that, but I do think if the allegations are true that he will probably get a new trial. That's just my thoughts on things, because regardless of if you like him, or you think he's innocent, or you think he's guilty if he didn't get a fair trial. He didn't get a fair trial, and they're going to retry him, and it's going to be a disaster, an epic disaster, just like it was the first time around. So let's move on to Lori Valo news. Finally, after all of this time, Judge Boyce has ordered the body and remains of JJ Valo to be released to his next of ken So yes, for those wondering, the family still has not been able to have a proper burial for JJ and tyly because they've been hulled up in the court system, which is really really sad. So Larry and Kay Woodcock, who are JJ's grandparents, released a statement and I'm going to read that right now. The last several years have been filled with pain and grief as we've traveled this long road. We have waited and prayed for this day for so long and are immeasurably relieved that JJ will finally be laid to rest. We have spent the days immersed in the memories of the love and happiness that JJ shined and continues to shine on our life. As we reminisce in the joy that JJ filled our life with, our hearts ache for those that love JJ and share in the immense grip even loss of such a beautiful little man. We are grateful for the love and support of everyone that has come to love JJ, Tyley and Charles as we continue to fire for justice. The dedication and strength has given. The dedication and strength given has helped to carry us through. We are anxious to find out when Tyley, too can be laid to rest. Our greatest wish is for JJ and Tyley to be celebrated for the joy and love that they brought to this world, and for them to finally rest in peace only then while our hearts begin to heal. Memorial services will be announced at a later date. Larry and k Woodcock I could just burst into tears. Thank God that they're finally going to get the remains of JJ so they can give him a proper service, and hopefully that Tyley is also going to be released soon as well, because she deserves that as well. And it's really sad that this all has transpired and this all is still taking place. Chad's trials start to set in April of next year. And thinking about the families having to relive that and go through it again. And then Melanie Pulowski formerly Melanie Boudreau, she is a court case coming up against some of the things with her ex husband, Brandon Boudreau. This is an ongoing thing. Laurie is supposed to be going back to Arizona for charges in Charles's death. Like this case is never going to end. I think we're looking at at least another year, possibly two years of legalities and core battles and trying to get justice for the people that need to get justice for. So we're slowly but surely getting there. And I think think that JJ's body being released is another step in the right direction, and we are going to celebrate that. And we're going to go now into a story that has been legit years in the making, and that is the murder of Natalie Holloway. Finally, finally, finally, finally, finally, the biggest piece of trash on this earth you are in Vanderslute has finally confessed and talked about killing Natalie Holloway. And I don't know, this is a case that's just always stuck with me. Natalie and I were around the same age. So for those that don't remember, Natalie went on a senior trip to Aruba with her class and ended up coming up missing. And of course it's a missing American in a different country. So there's a ton of red tape and legalities that our family had to go through to try to even get information as to what had happened. But they essentially had three persons of interest. One of them was this year on Vanderslute, and then there was a couple of brothers. Now Uron, of course, is all high and mighty in Aruba. I think his father was like some kind of higher up person in Aruba. I'm not going to go back and look it up because I really don't give a shit about the vandersloots. But it became a huge thing, and Natalie's body has never been found, and there had been a lot of speculation, Well, she was sex traffic, she was sold, she was killed, so there's a lot of speculation as to what happened to her. And then Uron went to extort money from her family, saying that he was going to say what happened in exchange for this money. That of course he came back and said, never mind, I'm not going to do that, and he was then arrested for killing another girl because he is a horrible ass human and he killed another woman in Peru, like met her in the casino, went back to the hotel room, murdered her, and then left like nothing had ever happened. And he is serving prison time for that in Peru. But once this whole extortion thing was playing out, they extradited him back to the United States and he agreed to finally confess to what happened to Natalie that day or that night. I should say so trigger warning, This is not the greatest thing in the world. This is like really graphic and really triggering, could be triggering. So in his confession, he talked about what happened in the final moments of her life. So she did willingly go with him. Of course, she is a teenager, she's in a different countries. She meets a cute boy, and he like, back then, like, yeah, he would have been someone that a high school girl would think was cute, but now that you know what you know about him, you know that he's a disgusting creep. So anyways, he and her go for a walk on the beach and he makes some sexual advances at her, and her, being a badass woman, kneed him in the crotch, and unfortunately he retaliated and attacked her and crushed her head with a cinder block and then dragged her into the ocean. And he also said that when he hit her with the cinder block again trigger warning, that he smashed her head in with it completely, and he said, quote her face basically, you know, collapses in. Even though it's dark, I can see her faces collapsed in. And then he did what he did, and then he dragged her into the ocean until he was about knees deep, and then pushed her off into the sea. And then he walked home and began to fabricate his web of lies that he would there tell for the next however many years, it's been since two thousand and five, almost twenty freaking years. This guy is a actual piece of shit. I can read through the I would do. Maybe I'll just do an episode. No, it's certainly that long. Let me read it through it right now, Why the heck not so? The following is a portion of the transcript of a recorded interview with your on Vanderslout. This portion is from Time to Stay at twenty one forty three to twenty five forty eight, and it is Attorney Kevin Butler who's interviewing him. So she had asked to go back to her hotel, but I was just trying to get dropped off a little bit further away from her hotel so we could walk back to her hotel and I might still get a chance to be with her. That's what I was hoping for. So yeah, Deepak draws me off at another place a little right of the Marriotte hotel known as the Fisherman's Huts, and it's not too far from you know, the next hotel tells the Marriotte, and the hotel next to that is another Marriott, which is a timeshare, and then it's a holiday inn. And we walk along the beach and the attorney asked if Deepak and Satisha get out, and he said, yeah, they leave and they go back to their house, or at least I assume they go back to their house and they get in their car and leave. And I'm actually with Natalie walking along the beach and I find a space before we get to the Marriotte hotel where I lay her down. We lay down together in the sand and we start kissing each other. I get her to kiss me again, and we start kissing each other. You already said that. And I start feeling her up again, and she tells me no, and she tells me she doesn't want to she doesn't want me to feel her up. I insist, and I keep feeling her up either way, because he's a fucking creep. If a guy does this to you, he's a creep. Just FYI when you say no, And then she needs me and she ends upneeing me in the crotch. When she needs me in the crotch, I get up on the beach and I kick her extremely hard in the face, and she's laying down unconscious, possibly even even dead, but definitely unconscious. I see right next to her, there's a huge cinder black laying on the beach. I take the cinder block and I smash her head in with it completely, which is what I said earlier. I'm scared. I don't know what to do after, and I just take her and put her in the ocean, and then I walk home. I have never dropped the F bomb on this podcast before. I try to keep it clean. I say freaking a lot but this guy is a fucking horrible human, worst person on earth to have done this, first of all, to have done this to a woman, and then he saw the media circus that surrounded it, and he kept up the lie for almost twenty years because he is actual trash. If he had been held accountable in two thousand and five when this went down, that woman in Peru never would have died because his ass would have been in jail. And that really frustrates me. It is so frustrating that this was allowed to happen. There was allowed to be a cover up, and the statue statute to limitations for Aruba is twelve years, so he can no longer be charged with her killing. He is a piece of shit. He needs to rot in prison, and I hope nothing but horrible, horrible bad things for him. He's gotten married in jail, he had a baby in jail. Things that Natalie and the other woman that he killed, who was named Stephanie Flores Ramirez, they never got the opportunity to get married, to have kids, to live their lives because this piece of shit took it from them. And like I said, I feel like there are so many things that could have been done differently here, but they weren't done differently. They were done the way that they were done. And finally, after all of this time, Natalie's mom, Beth, finally has some closure as to what happened to her daughter. And I really liked in her statement when she spoke today, she said how bad he looks, because he does. He looks horrible, And she told him that you look horrible because his outsides now mouch his insides, which are horrible, horrible things. And also, I really don't think that Natalie is probably the first girl he did this to. I feel like there's probably others that just haven't come forward because of who his family was in Aruba and how powerful they were. But I guarantee you Natalie was not the first girl that turned him down, turned down his advances and he retaliated. Guarantee it. You just don't become a creepy ass rapist overnight, and you don't just become a murderer overnight. There's always little things that lead up to it. So and I'm not saying he was a rapist, but when a girl tells you no and you're still like doing what she said no to, You're like, right, on part to be a rapist. Okay, I need to bring myself back down to earth and get out of I hate your on vandersloop bubble that I am in because I do have all the rage towards him. Natalie is not anyone I know. She is not my family, She is not anybody that I've ever had any interaction with. But I feel so deeply about what her family was put through by the people of Aruba and by him. It really gets me fired the f up. It really does. If you couldn't tell it gets me fired up, all right. Last thing I want to talk about, real, real quick is logan and serial killer Rex Hureman. They are now saying that they are going to be able to tie him to the murders of two additional girls, girls that I've talked about in the past, who are named Shannon Gilbert and Karen Vgatta, and I have talked about them in the past. They were both found in twenty and ten and twenty and eleven, and they're finally now able to get enough evidence that is going to link him to the two crimes and the two murders, and we are continuing to build our Long Island serial killer case which is ever growing, and I do think there's going to be more to come. So I have rambled on long enough in this right now and True Crime. I literally just got my voice back, so I probably don't sound perfect, but literally the other day I had no voice at all. Seed's starting to crack a little bit. I had no voice at all. So the fact that I'm even able to do this episode and rant and rage about your on Vanderslute is a true miracle. So we are going to go ahead and lead into today's episode, which was pre recorded pre losing my voice, so it's probably gonna sound a little bit different, but I thank you guys so much for listening, and I hope you guys enjoy today's episode. All right, guys, coming to you today with a new case that I have had on my list forever more and I finally took the time to sit down and look into it. And this one is a lot and there is kind of a lot of information out there right now about it, and I did try to sit down and research as much as possible so I can kind of get a bunch of different perspectives. But today we're going to be talking about the nineteen ninety two murder of a woman named Natasha Actually. She was only nineteen years old when she was found murdered and in a brutal, brutal way. So let's start off, as always by talking a little bit about who Natasha was, and then we're just going to dive right into the events that led up to her unfortunate, untimely death. Natasha Ann Actually was born May eleventh of nineteen seventy two in the Angela County, Texas. She was born to her parents, Lloyd Nolan actually and Karen Sue Actually Woodard, and she was your typical average teenage girl. She loved her friends, she loved her family. Unfortunately, she had had some tragedy that happened. Her parents had divorce while she was young, and unfortunately, by the time Natasha was eight, her dad, Lloyd had unfortunately passed away. So she grew up with her mom being pretty much the sole provider, the sole parent. And from everything I've seen, it seems like Karen did a wonderful job at raising Natasha, and she was well liked by her peers. She was a cheerleader. Natasha's best friend described Natasha as a wonderful person and in high school, people either loved her or they hated her, which I feel like is pretty run of the mill, par for the course for most people that attend high school or school in general. You're not going to be everybody's best friend, but you are either loved or you're not loved by your peers. And Natasha, for the most part, sounds like she was very well liked and loved by those that surrounded her, and she enjoyed going out. She enjoyed having fun. She enjoyed the party scene as most teenagers do, and enjoyed the alcohol intake and occasional recreational drug use as most teenagers do, especially in nineteen ninety two, Like those were the times. So those are some of the things that Natasha would do in her free time. She would go to parties, she would hang out, she would go cruise around, and she did all of this in the very, very small town that she lived. Again. Natasha's friend Keisha Meyer said that she loved life and she lived life hard. Had shared with her friend once that she felt like she was going to die young, and unfortunately she was right. She died just a week away from her twentieth birthday. So Natasha had pretty much grown up in Livingston, Texas, and her and Keisha were great friends. But during the senior year of high school, Natasha was sent to live with her grandparents in Odessa, Texas, and she ended up graduating from Odessa Paraman High School. She got an apartment with some roommates in College Station and was starting to take some classes at Blynn College. Two weeks before she ended up being murdered, Natasha had called Keisha and told her that she was going to be coming back home to Livingston to visit a little bit, and she wanted to go to some different birthday parties that were around the area, and Keisha said, unfortunately, she didn't get to speak to her. She had left a message with Keisha's grandma and we just wanted to make sure that Kisha was going to be there when she came to visit, and Keisha said that Natasha said that she had something important to tell me, but she never found out exactly what that was, and she unfortunately never got to speak or see Natasha again. So let's fast forward to the evening of Saturday, May second of nineteen ninety two, when Natasha was invited to a friend's birthday party in Shepherd, Texas. Now we are going to talk a little bit about this party, whose party it was, who was there, and then we're going to deep dive into what may have potentially happened to Natasha. So this birthday party was a party for a gal named Deborah Fowler who was to be turning eighteen years old, and it was held at a guy named Clarence Fowler's house, and it was in five Acres Independent Subdivision in Shepherd, Texas, and Clarence was Deborah's father. Now, I think an important part of talking about this case is talking about this party, because this is the last place that Natasha was seen alive and well. And the party, although it was an eighteenth birthday party for Deborah, it did have a mix of kids and adults alike. So you had teenagers all the way to grown people at this eighteenth birthday party. And you also had a lot of people that were in attendance that had parents who were very important in the elected official realm. Because again we're in a small town where in Shepherd, Texas, small town drama runs deep, and small town loyalty also runs deep, which is why I feel like this case has gone unsolved for all of this time. This happened in nineteen ninety two. This happened a long time ago, and it's another one of those cases where I feel like the evidence is late, pretty much in front of us. A few different things have happened, and still to this day we don't have any resolution in the murder of Natasha. So that evening Saturday, May second, nineteen ninety two was the last place that Natasha was seen alive and well, and she never came home that night. So fast forward to the next morning, which is May third of nineteen ninety two, Around ten am, there was a man and his grandson who had returned from a fishing trip, and they ended up coming across a smoldering hatchback car on a dirt road in San Jacento County, which was located about a mile from where the party had taken place. The car had been set on fire, and inside of the trunk of the hatchback they found bones which would later be identified as belonging to Natasha. It was also Natasha's car that they found smoldering. So whoever committed these horrible acts against Natasha was trying to cover it up by seemingly burning away all of the evidence. One of the San Jacino County sheriffs who worked on the case was named Tom Branch. He worked on the case for about twelve years. He says that the investigators believe that Natasha was killed at or near the site of the party sometime during the night or in the early morning hours, and then driven to that area about a mile away, and then the car was set on fire there. They did some lab reports and they said that the accelerant that was used to light the car on fire was identified as drip gas, and they also think that they might have used oil and gas wells, which were very common in the area, to kind of finish off the job and make sure that whatever was burned was unidentifiable, which ended up not being the case. So Tom Branch goes on to say that drip gas is something that you can get out of the oil well if you know what you're doing, but not everybody knows how to do that, So in his opinion, that really narrows down the list of suspects. And he said that the scene was very very gratesome and trigger warning, this is graphic. He said, her whole body fit inside of a shoe box. That is just horrible. I can't even imagine poor Natasha what she could have gone through. So Natasha's family had ended up reporting her missing early that morning when she didn't arrive to her mom's house as expected. She was very dependable. She always would follow through on things, and for her not to show up, it was just very out of the ordinary. And Natasha's brother, who was named Chadwodard, he was only twelve years old when his sister was murdered, and her death has definitely helped shape him into who he is today. And he is still one of the strongest and biggest proponents for keeping her case out there and keeping her case active and talking about her case and trying to get justice in his sister's untimely, horrible murder. So initially they felt like they were going to be solving this pretty quickly. There were two people who were arrested for aggravated assault after a witness claimed that he saw them beating up Natasha at this party, but the story quickly fell apart because he changed his story and recanted and said no, that never happened. So this is a newspaper clipping that is talking about the arrest of these people. On January fourteenth of nineteen ninety three, Cindy Hennings was arrested for aggravated assault after witnesses said she and Natasha actually had been fighting at the party. In March of nineteen ninety three, James Melvin Morton, then aged twenty and living in On, Alaska, was arrested by San Jacino County investigators for aggravated assault. Morton surrendered himself one month after officials obtained an arrest warrant. Rogers said a male witness had come forward and passed a polygraph test, but he later recanted under duress. After Morton and Hennings were arrested. A female inmate who shared a cell with Hennings also told Roger Hennings admitted to the killing, but investigators could not perform a polygraph test because she was pregnant at the time. Morton and Hennings were released after the main witness changed his story and said he made up the story he told the grand jury. So that is pretty much where the case stopped for the most part. Unfortunately, now, I will say that it sounds to me like the writings on the wall, allegedly, in my opinion, like this wasn't just said for the heck of it, and this is probably what really happened. Natasha was attacked by these people. Allegedly, she was raped, she was beat she was murdered, she was shoved in the trunk of a car, and then they burned her body to hide the evidence, allegedly, allegedly allegedly, And there are probably a lot of people that went to that party that know this to be fact and know this to be true, and none of them are talking. So the detective Tom Branch had said that the number of people that were at the party, of course, definitely made it difficult to try to track down who potentially might have seen something, who potentially could have been involved. Again, I say, this party had adults and those who are a little bit younger, like older teenagers. It had lots of alcohol, It had a lot of different drugs, and it made the investigation very difficult. There were search warrants at different houses, and they conducted searches of vehicles all over these surrounding areas, and they questioned different witnesses from the party, but no one had anything that they could offer up and nobody was talking. And Tom said that he is one hundred percent percent sure that they spoke to the person responsible for her death during the course of the investigation. But unless this person or a witness comes forward, we might never know the truth. And that's a really unfortunate situation where like, so many people probably know what happened, but small town loyalty, I guess, so to say small town loyalty runs deep. It kind of reminds me a little bit of Kristin O'Connell and that whole situation out of OVID, New York. It just really makes me question a lot about people covering for other people and how you can lay in bed at night knowing that you know that someone did something bad and that you are not saying anything. Even if you had nothing to do with it, you're still just as guilty by not coming forward and saying what you know that could potentially solve a cold case crime that happened so so many years ago. Another person who was big in trying to figure out what happened to her daughter was Natasha's mother. She literally fought until the day she died to catch Natasha's killer and get justice for her daughter, and unfortunately she passed away in two thousand and two from cancer, and Natasha's friend, Keisha remained close with Natasha's family over the years and was with her mother in her last final days, her dying days, and I feel like that's a really special, important relationship. Glad that Kisha was able to be there for Natasha's mother, Karen, and unfortunately Karen passed away before she was able to get justice for her daughter. But it's never too late to get justice for Natasha. So now I'm going to kind of go into a few of the different things that are out there right now. Kelly Ziegler and her show on Oxygen did a whole episode on this case, and she kind of has her own theory. We're going to talk about that. We're going to talk about a book that was written about this case, and we're also going to talk about the Facebook page that the family has set up for Natasha. It's called Justice for Natasha. And what I've really found in a lot of these cold cases is the families are the ones who are keeping these stories in the headlines in the media, and they are very outspoken to who they think is the person responsible, and they do not back down. And I feel like that's a really respectable admirable quality because you never know when you're going to be put in the position where one of your loved ones is taken in a brutal way, and then to be able to just sit back and watch their killer or killers get away with it for decades on decades on decades, it has to be so frustrating. So I commend them for being outspoken, being vocal, and keeping these stories alive. And that is the case in Natasha's case. They have been very outspoken, very vocal, and they are keeping her case at the forefront of everything that they do, and I have mad respect for that because I feel like I would do the same thing if it was my family member or my friend. So first, let's talk about the Cole Justice episode that Kelly Siegler did on this case. Again, Kelly is, in my opinion, a well respected prosecutor, and she has a show called Cold Justice where they're reviewing some cold cases trying to get to the bottom of it, and they are doing really, really great things. I feel like anybody who is in this true crime community that is using their platform to bring attention to these cold cases is doing it for the right reasons, and I think that it takes a village and hopefully some of these cases do get solved just because there's new eyes, new attention on these specific cases. So in regards to the Natasha actually case, there is a forensic pathologist named Katherine Penary who reviewed the case for the Cold Justice episode, and they could not determine a cause of death, but it was concluded that the fire had started in the front passenger area of the vehicle and she was in the rear hatchback area during the setting of the fire and it was so hot that it basically just cremated Natasha's body unfortunately. And in the episode they also talk about the guy who had come forward and said there was an altercation between Natasha and two other people and he was a witness to that, and then he later recanted. And there was allegedly another person that was a partygoer named Chad McGregor that Natasha had to run in with. But again, nothing substantial, nothing significant, nothing concrete that is leading to what happened to Natasha. So one of the other people at the party had told investigators that she remembered Natasha had sped off from the party, but as far as she knew that she hadn't had run ins with anyone that night, and the same person also said that the two people that allegedly were put in to having an altercation with Natasha left about an hour after her, So they're trying to say that there's no way that they went after her, and they were upset with her because they left calmly an hour after and a hot Natasha had left, So they are basically just trying to fill in some of these holes that are in the case. So the Cold Justice Team did interviews with Jim Morton, Kevin Malone, and Chad McGregor, and they kind of sort of came to the conclusion that her death was probably not a homicide and said that the stories that they had told match what they had said in the initial GET investigation thirty years ago, and said that after she talked to them, she thinks that everybody got it wrong. And then she acknowledged that it was difficult to know for certain what happened, what was going on in Natasha's head, and why the fire burned so immensely, and she said, as crazy as it sounds that this fire was an accident, someone else being able to set it sounds impossible. We feel confident that we can eliminate all of these suspects in all of these rumors. And Natasha's brother Chad said it was going to take time to process the findings, but that he was glad that it's cleared a lot of people's names. Now I get it if these people truly are not involved, and I mean, the Cold Justice team obviously knows what they're doing. They're not just willy nilly like not looking into this case whatsoever. They're talking to the people that they need to talk to. And obviously I respect Elle Siegler and her opinion as far as what she things happened. It is a potential that maybe something nefarious didn't happen, but there's also that chance that something did and the person who did this is still out there. And again we're talking small town and we're talking cover ups, and it's very possible that something that did happen to her, even though people are still sticking to the same story thirty years later that they were originally telling back then. I don't know. I just feel like it's worth looking into a little bit more. But again, we don't want to be blaming people for something when they truly did have nothing to do with it. They were just kind of in the wrong place at the wrong time, and they're attached to something that could potentially come back to make them look like they were involved when they truly weren't. So I do think it's important to look at it from all aspects. So there is a book that was written and it is available on Amazon. It is called Hiding in Plain Sight? Who Killed Natasha? Actually? And it is a series. It is I believe it's two books, and I'm going to read the description that's on the back. In the early morning hours of May third, nineteen ninety two, while attending an alcohol and drug infested party, nineteen year old in the top Usha Actually was gang raped, stomped, and shot to death. Her body was dismembered, stuffed in an oil drum, submerged in dripped gas, and burned. What was left of her was thrown in the back of her eighty nine Camaro and burned again. Today, her killers walk free. Law enforcement local and state refused to discuss the case. Members of the prosecution pray it is never solved. Twenty five eyewitnesses have lived in fear for three decades. A district attorney advised some of the party to plead the fifth sixteen hours before the body was found, while a record driver showed law enforcement her remains twenty four hours prior to the official reports. The Texas ranger assisted to investigate the case threatened two witnesses. They are now serving prison time. Another ranger told one of our investigators to keep quiet. Natasha is the story of alcohol, drugs, sex psychic's murder, prostitution, and government corruption, spreading from deep East Texas to the state capitol in Austin. So it sounds really good. Honestly, I feel like I probably should have read this before I did this episode, but it definitely sounds interesting and in the first So the first book, the description is Natasha actually was murdered twenty seven years ago. She attended a drug and alcohol infested party and was never seen again. Her murder remains unsolved. What was left of her burn remains were found a mile from the party site. Politics and law enforcement became entangled, and the cover up was on. So the people who wrote this book obviously are the people who believe that it is a cover up, and it's small town and everyone's covering for each other, and that it was a murder and they have the right to believe that. I'm sure all of it's in the book as to why they think that, and I've seen a lot that that kind of backs up that theory. I feel like there's a lot to this case that's unknown, and until people are willing to come forward and talk about what they know and what they saw that night, we're not really ever going to know what happened. And there's also the Facebook page where they're very vocal about this was a murder and it's been covered up, and Cindy knows something. Cindy was the one who was allegedly fighting with Natasha, and there's just so much. And there's also talk about the guy who owned the house and the property where the party took place, and about some of his indiscretions, and there's just a lot. I am going to buy the books and read the books, and then I'm going to report back. I probably should have done that ahead of time, but I literally just started researching this case and wanted to go ahead and record. But I do think talking about the books is important, So I'm probably gonna do like a part two where I talk about the book because I also wanted to talk about the Kelly Siegler coll Justice episode as well, because they have kind of come to a different conclusion, which I think is fair, and I feel like it's good to kind of see both sides of it. I really don't know what I think. I do feel like somebody being in a situation like that where the whole drip gas thing and that's something that not a lot of people are able to do or have access to, I feel like that's pretty telling. And I also feel like something like that doesn't sound like it's an accident, Like why would she be in the hatchback of her car. That doesn't sound accidental. I don't know. I feel like it's probably more likely nefarious and not good than it is accidental or just like a big misunderstanding. But at the end of the day, I feel like getting justice for Natasha is number one and most important, and telling her story is important. Remembering who she was is important, and she's more than what happened to her at the end of her life, and I feel like for her family that is still living, it's very very important to figure out who did this and that justice has served. So I will be sharing some photos of Natasha on my Instagram and Facebook, and I am going to read the books and get back to you with a little recap on those, and we'll definitely keep you guys updated on any case happenings and updates as far as this goes. I will also link the Facebook page as well as a link to the books if you're interested in the book books. And I'm also going to be citing all of the sources I use for this episode because I kind of pulled a lot of information from a lot of different places, so I want to make sure that everyone gets credit where credit is due and I will see you guys on Monday for a brand new episode. I hope you all have a fantastic weekend. For me, it is Halloween party weekend and I have my annual Halloween party that is Saturday night and I am so excited for that. So if you have any fun Halloween plans, I want to see your costumes because I am a Halloween fanatic, so please send me what you're dressing up as and pictures because I love all of the spooky things. So I hope you guys have a great one and I will chat with you all on Monday for a new episode, Bye