Norman Ladner

All witnesses, suspects, and persons of interest are considered innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Warning, this episode contains graphic crime scene detail. Please listen with discretion. Welcome to Primetime Crime. I'm your host, Kylie. Let's talk right now on true crime, and then together we're gonna work on warming up some cold cases. Let's go. Hey guys, welcome to this week's episode of Primetime Crime. It's Kylie. It is so good to actually be able to talk without losing my voice. Last week, I was struggling, hardcore, trying to speak. So I appreciate you guys being patient with me on this. the right now and true crime of it all, because we do have quite a few things I feel like to catch up on over the last week. Lots of current trials going on and court updates and so on and so forth. So first thing is Adam Montgomery, the father to Harmony Montgomery, his court date, his new court date is going to be October 27th of 2027. So we will be. Getting into all of that yet again next year. Now, Adam was found guilty in a court of law, but the ruling was overturned due to a technicality with the different things that they charged him with. So that is the reason he is getting a new trial. Next up, something I want to talk about that I haven't talked about here is Caleb Flynn. He is currently on trial for the murder of his wife, Ashley. Caleb was a former American Idol contestant and a former pastor. So in February of this year, Caleb called 911 and was frantically saying that somebody broke into their home in Ohio and killed his wife. Now, Ashley was a middle school volleyball coach, and they had two daughters together. And so 13 years ago, Caleb went on American Idol to audition. This was the show's 12th season, and Ashley was very supportive of him, supported his dreams and his ambitions to break into the music industry. And they were married for 16 years, and it is alleged that Caleb is the one that took his wife's life and then staged it to make it look like she. Was killed by an intruder. The worst part about all of this is this happened while his two children were in the home, while their two children were in the home. Caleb has pled not guilty to charges of aggravated murder, murder, felonious assault, and tampering with evidence. The trial is going on right now, and. It is slated to last about two weeks. And of course, as always, there is a mistress, allegedly, allegedly a mistress involved. So there's a lot going on here. If you guys want to keep up with testimony, Pretty Lies and Alibis is covering it over on her podcast, Pretty Lies and Alibis. So if you want a daily trial updates and coverage, she does a really good job at making the episodes, just the facts broken down, what happened in the morning of the trial and what happened in the afternoon of the trial every single day. But I also have heard that his two daughters are going to be testifying. So that is obviously going to be interesting. They were there that night. So I really don't know. I don't think things look great for Caleb because there's a lot of text messages, a lot of text messages. And I don't think things look great for him. It's never a slam dunk. I always say that there's always that slim chance. But I don't think, at least so far from what we know, that things are going to work out in Caleb's favor. So in the Nolan Wells case, he is the 18-year-old who disappeared during a July 4th trip to Horn Island, and he was found deceased a couple of days later. I have spoken about his case on the podcast previously. So a Mississippi grand jury has declined to indict anyone in connection with Nolan's death. The grand jury heard testimony from 43 witnesses and reviewed evidence that was obtained through 132 subpoenas. They also had access. To cell phone and Snapchat records, and they have decided that there was no evidence that a crime was at play in Nolan. Wells' death. Both the Mississippi State Medical Examiner's Office and the independent pathologist that was hired by Nolan's family determined that the cause of death was undetermined, but drowning was described as a diagnosis of exclusion. So there was bruising to the back of Nolan's head, but investigators determined that that was not a fatal injury and there was no other evidence of any other fatal injuries. There was also no evidence or trace of any drugs in Nolan's system, and this is something that has been widely talked about online and speculated about that there was drugs in his system, but that is not true according to the evidence that was found by the grand jury. They also said that there is no evidence that supports allegations that Nolan's death was racially motivated because there was, again, a lot of speculation about that. He went on to Horn Island with some friends and then decided to essentially hang back on the island and The people that he had gone over there with basically ended up leaving, going back home or whatever the case may be. And then Nolan basically ended up deceased. Now, the circumstances surrounding what actually happened are still unclear. But as of right now, that is kind of where everything stands. And if there is any more updates in this one, I will be sure to let you guys know what they are. Okay, updates in a cold case. This is not one I have covered, but it is one that honestly has been on my list. The death of George Jr. Brudinsky. He was 10 years old and he went missing from his Brentwood, Maryland neighborhood in May of 1993. So they officially have announced that there is a break in the case after 33 years. So Junior was last seen leaving his home in Prince George County, Maryland on his red bicycle on May 24th of 1993. Like I said, he was 10 years old. So investigators have been kind of going back over things within the last few months. They were re-interviewing people that had been questioned in the past or had been connected to the case in one shape or another. And This obviously has led to new witnesses and fresh leads. This is why it's so important for law enforcement to periodically review these older, colder cases. So it led police to a individual who is now 47 years old, and he told law enforcement that he is the one that killed Junior when he was only 13 years because both of these boys were being sexually abused by the human garbage that is allegedly Joseph Lynch. So this witness says that Lynch was present and basically ordered the sexual assault of Junior and participated in the events that followed, including the disposal and removal of Junior's body from the residence. So on Thursday, September 17th, 61-year-old Joseph Lynch has been charged with second-degree murder and sexual assault in connection with Junior's death. Now, the man who confessed to killing Junior was only 13 years old at the time, and he was also a victim of this horrific human, Joseph Lynch. So he does not face any charges at this point. The law may be restrictive based on the age of this individual at the time of the death, but they are very much going to defer to the state attorney for Prince George's County for that aspect of things, because that's a very complicated type of situation. So Investigators did say that Joseph Lynch lived near Junior's family in Brentwood, and that's about five miles northeast of Washington, D.C. And no shock here, Lynch was previously linked to a child sex abuse operation that was uncovered when investigators were searching for Junior. And that discovery actually sent two other men to prison, James Kowalski and his renter and co-worker, Stephen Leak. They both went to prison. Police say that the two men befriended young boys, gave them gifts, and then invited them into their home, and then they would sexually abuse them and often videotape the acts, which is absolutely super disgusting. So although these two guys were never linked to Junior's disappearance, there was videotapes in the home with recordings of local news coverage of the search for Junior. So this investigation into these two individuals also led to the arrest of Lynch for child sex abuse. And he was convicted in 1994. And unfortunately, he was released in 2006. And then they arrested him again earlier this year in 2026, charging him with sexually abusing two teenage boys between 2007 and 2014. So the piece of crap was released in 2006, never should have been released. And is back to abusing boys between 2007 and 2014 in Mount Rainier, Maryland. Again, should have never been out of jail. Dead pedophiles can't re-offend, and I stand by it. They also believe that he is responsible for an arson in 2012. So there is likely way more victims of Joseph Lynch Again, he has not been found guilty on the homicide charges against Junior. So all of that is alleged. However, I do believe that investigators have a lot of what they need to continue to build this case against him. And I think this is a perfect example of why if you commit sexual abuse against a child, you should never, ever, ever be let out into society again. And I know there is a. Lot of people that do believe that they can be rehabilitated. But I think in a very general sense, speaking of somebody that commits these crimes against children, and then they go to jail and they're released. They don't really have a rehabilitation process while they are behind bars. Some might, not to say that they don't, but I think the vast majority just want to get through their time so they can go back to re-offending and being a menace to society. And that is my personal opinion on the matter. I think if you hurt a child, we should believe that that is the type of person you are. And you just do not get any more chances to ever have access to children again. And that is a kill that I will die on. But that is the. Update right now on Junior's case. There has been this huge break, and I think it's so sad. It almost gave me Dean Corll vibes because he very much did the same thing. He would kidnap boys, and he had people that were like his apprentices, and they were basically doing his dirty work helping to get these kids young boys into the home so Dean could do his creepy perverted things with them. And he ultimately ended up being killed by one of the people that he had gotten to help him do these things. Dean Corll is one of my rabbit holes, and I maybe one day will do his case because he is just... a absolute monster. But the Elmer Wayne Henley of it all, Elmer Wayne Henley is the person who ended up ultimately taking Dean Corll's life. And there's just so much. there. There's a lot to unpack. And there still is an unknown, unidentified victim of Dean Corll, so maybe I will decide to cover that. At some point in time. We do have an. Update on missing person Jason Landry. Jason went missing in December of 2020. So Jason was a Texas State University student, and he was going home for winter break to visit with his family. for the holiday season, and he left San Marcos the night of December 13th of 2020 and headed home to Missouri City. for the holiday season and to spend time with his family. Shortly after midnight, his crashed and abandoned Nissan Altima was discovered on Salt Flat Road, which is near Luling, which is about 30 miles from San Marcos. His phone, wallet, and some of his clothing were found near the wreckage of the car, but there was no sign of Jason, and he has been missing ever since. So there have been numerous searches. His family really played an integral part of trying to find Jason. They did a lot of foot searches. They organized a lot of searches for Jason and have helped numerous others find their missing loved ones as well. They have been a really, really amazing part of the true crime community and advocating and helping others who have also been victims of having a missing loved one. But Jason has been missing since then in 2020, December 13th of 2020. On September 8th, a local resident discovered remains east of Salt Flat Road in Caldwell County between Soda Springs and Biggs Road. They conducted DNA testing and it was announced today, I'm recording this on Wednesday, that the positive identification has confirmed those remains belong to Jason Landry. I'll be honest, I was really upset when I heard this. My friend Katie texted me that they positively identified the remains as belonging to Jason. I was really upset. I threw my phone because even though Obviously, we have answers now. Jason is no longer alive. There's always that little seedling of hope that that person is still out there. And now it comes down to what happened to Jason and why did it take so long for his remains to finally be found? there is six years unaccounted for. So that is kind of where things stand as far as that goes today. There was another breaking true crime news story today. I'm making a separate episode on that because I'm very overwhelmed by it. And there was a whole press conference. It's about the Chicago Tylenol murders in a roundabout way, maybe possibly allegedly. I'm going to talk about it. There was a whole press conference that I have to unpack and talk about. So I will be doing that sooner rather than later, and we'll get that out to you guys very, very soon. All right, so we are calling that good for right now on True Crime, and we are going to go ahead and get into this week's episode. All righty, guys, today we are jumping in to a brand new case. In today's episode, I'm going to be telling you about the unsolved, mysterious death of 17-year-old Norman Ladner Jr. in August of 1989 out of Picayune, Mississippi. 17-year-old Norman Ladner was found deceased after leaving home to go hunting on the family's farm. A single gunshot wound to the head, what appeared to be a tragic accident, soon turned into a suicide ruling. which caused Norman's family to dig in further and try and solve the mystery behind what really happened to their son. As always, we have to go back to the beginning so we can understand how we got here. Norman's case was featured on an episode of Unsolved Mysteries, and my friends Ben and Sierra from the Unsolved Couple podcast also did an episode covering Norman's case and in their Unsolved Mysteries recaps that they do. So I'm going to link that below. Please go give it a listen. And if you aren't following their show, you fully should be because they go through and recap every single episode of Unsolved Mysteries from start to finish. So let's go ahead and get in to Norman's case. Norman Charles Ladner Jr. was born on May 29th of 1972 to his parents, Norman Ladner Sr. and Charlotte Ladner. Norman was the third born and the oldest boy of seven children. He was about to enter his senior year of high school. He was very well liked, he had a lot of friends, and he had everything going for him. Norman and his siblings grew up on the family's 122-acre property in Picayune, Mississippi. It was a property that was fenced on all four sides. It was a mix of farmland and woods and was about 60 acres of woods. But Norman knew the family property very, very well, and he was very outdoorsy. This is where he grew up, and he was very familiar with it. This was obviously his playground growing up, so he knew it like the back of his hand. Norman loved woodworking, and he also loved to fish and hunt, and he very much just enjoyed being outdoors on the family property and spent a lot of time out there enjoying the peace and quiet that nature had to offer him. In the Unsolved Mysteries episode, his mom Charlotte describes the area that they lived as his happy place. Norman's parents owned a country store that Norman also helped with. He worked there as a clerk, and he would often help his parents with chores at home and at the store. No matter where the day took him, Norman was always very prompt and back home between 7 and 7.30 p.m. so he could help his family with the chores and anything that they needed help with at the store and then have a family dinner together. Norman Sr. said that Norman was very punctual and that you could pretty much set your clock by Norman because he was that prompt and he was very, very dependable. And that is a really. Important part of our story. So we are going to go ahead and get into it now. The afternoon of August 21st of 1989, which was a Monday, Norman had told his parents that he was going to go onto the family property to go hunting and he left the family store. When 7 p.m. rolled around, Norman Sr. called his wife to let her know that Norman hadn't come home yet, and he did express that he was worried and he felt that maybe they should go out onto the property and look for him. Given that it was the family property and there was a lot of woods, there was some worry that maybe Norman had been injured, possibly bitten by a snake, or something else could have happened and he couldn't get help because of an injury. Norman Sr. Recruited some help because the property was 822 acres. So they did have a lot of land to cover and now it was dark outside. Charlotte originally had joined Norman Sr., but ended up going back to the country store to wait there on the off chance that Norman would show up. So Norman Sr. had gathered some people to help him, and they started searching. It was during their search in the woods that they came across the body of Norman Jr. He was deceased. He was found lying on his back. And when Norman Sr. went to touch him, his body was cold to the touch, which meant he had been gone for some time. Authorities immediately came and assessed the scene. Pearl County Sheriff Lawrence Lepkin was the officer that arrived on the scene that evening around 10 p.m. Norman Jr. Had a single gunshot wound to the head. They initially believed that Norman was possibly sitting in a tree and fell out of the tree, and the gun accidentally discharged and killed him in a tragic accident. Norman also had a laceration to the top of his head, which the sheriff speculated happened when he fell. There was also blood found on a nearby tree root, which they thought would make sense if he had taken a fall. The gun that Norman had with him was lying broken next to him, which again made sense if this was some type of accident and Norman had fallen from the tree. It would make sense that his gun had broken during the fall. The coroner initially even said to Charlotte and Norman Sr. that he was about 90% sure that this was a tragic accident, an accidental shooting. Something had happened while Norman was hunting and the gun accidentally went off and accidentally killed Norman. And his parents were very much willing. To accept this fate. As hard as it was for them to lose their son, they knew that accidents could definitely happen. Although they did know that Norman was very careful and he was very experienced with hunting and with guns themselves, but again, they knew that accidents could happen. But everything changed when the coroner came back with his final ruling, which was that Norman's death was in fact not an accident, but it was ruled a suicide. Norman's death was reportedly caused by a close contact wound in which the bullet had entered into Norman's right temple and exited out of the left. So there was an exit wound, meaning that the bullet was no longer still inside of Norman's body. It was described as a close contact wound, which in their opinion ruled out that this was accidental. Norman Sr. And Charlotte did not believe for a second that this was suicide. They did not believe that Norman had been struggling with anything and was happy, enjoyed life, and was making plans for his future. He was about to enter his senior year and really looking forward to it. Now, the coroner would go on to say that he believed that Norman had been standing when the shot was fired because of how his body was positioned in relation to the gun. But Norman Sr. said they never really made any attempt to locate the bullet that took Norman's life. They didn't go anywhere. In any way, shape, or form out of their way to fingerprint the gun or actually even try to prove that Norman's gun that he used for hunting was the gun that was used to kill Norman. They pretty much immediately ruled out any. Foul play, and at that point, they were focused on the accidental death theory, but very quickly, it turned to suicide. Now, like I said, Norman Sr. and Charlotte were willing to accept that this was a tragic accident, but they were not willing to accept that it was a suicide, especially when there was no evidence that pointed to it. The sheriff said it was his belief that Norman felt very comfortable in those woods, so that is the place he chose to go out there and end his life. So there is an interesting fact to this. When Norman left the store that day that his parents owned, he had $ 140 in his wallet. The wallet nor the money was ever found. So if this suicide theory is correct, then Norman had to have dumped his wallet somewhere on his way to take his own life along with the money, which also to me really doesn't make a whole lot of sense. The coroner's report also described the laceration on the top of Norman's head, so how would this have gotten there if it was a suicide? If Norman had shot himself and fell backwards, the laceration would have been at the back of his head, not on the top. Nothing in this investigation made sense to the Ladners. They made multiple attempts to talk with the sheriff and coroner about their findings and their final ruling, but they had no luck. They were frustrated with the lack of investigation into Norman's death and the suicide ruling. So with this, Norman Sr. and Charlotte decided to try and do their own investigation. They went back to the scene where Norman was found and they examined the area where he was found. They examined the soil and the blood and the tissue that was left behind at the scene where Norman's death had occurred. And I can't even imagine how traumatizing this was for them to have to go back there where their son's life was taken and go through evidence, essentially looking for clues, which honestly is what law enforcement should have done to begin with. But here we are. During their search, they found a long bullet. And after examining it under a microscope, it was noted that this bullet had blood and hair on it. They made an attempt to turn it over to the authorities, but the authorities were very dismissive and said that they didn't believe that this was the bullet that had actually taken Norman Jr. 's life. Now, this bullet was also a longer type of bullet that was not the type of bullet that would have been in the gun that Norman had on him that day. So it didn't really jive. Now, this bullet was also found in the ground. So Norman's family believes that the area that they found the bullet under the soil meant that Norman had been shot when he was laying on the ground. The state ballistics expert that they sent the bullet to for testing was not able to determine if the bullet was fired from the rifle that Norman had on him that day. They ended up sending the bullet to the Ladiners. But once the Ladiners got it back, they realized that this was not the same bullet that they had turned over to them, which, again, makes things even more questionable. Now, it's entirely possible back in those days that there isn't really necessarily a chain of command for things that are turned over. But somehow or. Another, they ended up getting a bullet back that wasn't even the bullet that they had initially turned over, which makes you question, was it an oversight or was that intentional? About three weeks after Norman's death, the Ladners went to the coroner's office to continue to question him about the ruling of suicide. While there, Charlotte said a stranger approached her and pulled her aside. and told her to stop trying to reopen the case, and basically alluded to her that she needed to focus on her other children and raising them, and told her to drop it. She said that this individual told her that they would never find out who killed Norman. Obviously, this is super sketchy. This person has never been identified, and to me, it just doesn't seem random that this person approached Charlotte and told her these things about the investigation and Norman's death. I don't think that it was somebody that was just kind of poking the bear, trying to get a rise out of them. It doesn't seem like that to me. It truly seems like there is something more going on here that we don't know about. And I think this is why Charlotte and Norman Sr. have been always so vocal about their belief that this was not an accident and this was not a suicide because of this interaction, because this really just doesn't make a whole lot of sense. But it's also interesting that this person felt comfortable enough to approach her at the coroner's office while she was having a discussion with her husband and the coroner about Norman's death. So who was this person? How were they related to the case? And why did they feel so comfortable approaching Charlotte and having this conversation with her without fear of being identified or fear of being questioned. That really makes me question who this person was and how they were affiliated to the case to begin with. So with that, this whole thing really, really bothered the Ladiners, but they were not going to let up despite this warning from this random stranger. So Norman Sr. Decided to return to the scene of Norman's death yet again. While he was there, he found a weird radio device that was located about 300 feet away from the scene where Norman was found. This was kind of like a homemade radio type of situation. He ended up turning it over to authorities, and of course, they dismissed it. They said that it had nothing to do with Norman's death. So Norman brought this radio to a former DEA agent and this DEA agent told him that this was a homemade radio device that is used by drug dealers to send a long-range signal to aircrafts so that these aircrafts could drop drugs to them. So it's entirely. Possible that this was in fact the case and Norman could have possibly stumbled upon some type of drug deal happening in the woods and was killed because he witnessed something that he wasn't supposed to see. Authorities, like I said, very much dismissed this and said that there was no evidence that there were drugs involved in Norman's death. So naturally, this is a place where we have to bring up the Dixie Mafia of it all. So the Dixie Mafia was a loosely organized criminal confederation based primarily in Biloxi, Mississippi, that operated across the southern United States from the 1960s through the 1980s. They engaged in burglary, armed robbery, theft, and fencing stolen goods, and they then would expand into illegal trades like contraband alcohol, tobacco, marijuana, and and methamphetamines, and there was a lot of rumors locally that this was possibly who could have been involved in Norman's death and that the sheriff could have been involved in the cover-up. Rumors surfaced that Sheriff Lumpkin had ties to the local Dixie Mafia drug cartel, although I do want to be clear that there was nothing ever proven that proved. That that was the case. There is a lot of unknown, and there's a lot of speculation surrounding this case. Sheriff Lawrence Lepkin was later charged with dogfighting and other illegal activities. The charges against Lawrence never stuck, and nothing ended up ever coming of it, which makes you question. Why that was the case. So there is a lot of questions surrounding this whole case, his handling of the case, his potential possible involvement in the case. And I will say people just generally didn't seem to really like him from a sheriff standpoint. They didn't respect him. And there's a. Lot of people that have publicly commented that they think that there was something more involved in Norman's death. Lawrence passed away in 2007, and Norman Sr. never gave up trying to fight for his son's case. He unfortunately passed away in 2003 without ever having resolution as to what happened to his son. Charlotte, Norman's mom, is still living along with Norman's siblings, and they very much still hold out hope that one day there will be something that happens in this case and we will see movement. If, in fact, this wasn't an accident and this was intentional and somebody took Norman's life. there is a possibility that somebody out there still knows something and still could come forward with what they know. Because this investigation and this case was pretty much ruled a suicide, there isn't anything for investigators to continue to pursue because in their mind, it is case closed. So Norman's case still very much for the family doesn't have resolution as to what happened to him. And I think this whole thing is just so tragic because it is very possible that this was an accident, that something happened in the woods. Norman had a fall or something happened accidentally where his gun discharged and he ended up passing away as a result. But all of the subsequent things that happened after the fact that Norman Sr. found stuff in the woods or that they continued to get pushback from the coroner and the sheriff about looking into this case and the random person that approached them at the coroner's office telling them not to look into it and not to reopen it. And basically saying that you're never going to find out what happened to your son. All of that leads me to believe that there is way more to this than something accidental. I just don't understand why they would have gone the route of suicide instead of just saying this was an accidental death. Because I do believe that if they had ruled it an accident, that the Ladners wouldn't have really questioned anything. But the suicide ruling made them question everything and made them go back over everything and realize that, yeah, there is some inconsistencies here. It doesn't really make a whole lot of sense. And the fact that there wasn't really an investigation. And very quickly upon arriving to the scene, Lawrence Lumpkin said that there was no foul play suspected. But how do you know that there's no foul play if you don't really collect any evidence? You don't look for the bullet that actually took Norman's life. You don't examine the gun that allegedly was used to kill Norman. Why not? It doesn't really make a whole lot of sense to me. So this one, honestly, we're left with way more questions than answers. It is very much a head scratcher. I don't really know what I think, but I do know that there is likely no way that Norman's death was a suicide. His wallet being missing is very questionable for me. It doesn't make any sense. Apparently, the contents of it were never found. So I do believe there is more to this story, and we're not really getting the full story, and there's probably likely a reason for that. But thank you guys so much for listening to Norman's story. I know this one was a little shorter than some of my other episodes, but I still wanted to tell Norman's story because I think it's an important one to share. And it is one where we really don't have a ton of information. because the investigation was pretty much over before it started. But I appreciate you guys listening, and I'm going to be sure to share some photos that correlate to this episode on my Instagram and Facebook pages, so be sure that you are following me over there to follow along with the pictures and all that correlate with this episode. So I hope you guys have a great weekend coming up and please be safe. And I will see you next week for a brand new unsolved case. Bye.