Robert Wone: Part 2

All witnesses, purchas of interest, and suspects are considered innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Warning. This episode contains graphic crime scene detail as well as talk of sexual assault. It may be sensitive for some listeners. Welcome to Primetime Crime. I'm your host, Kylie. Let's talk right now on true crime, and then together we are going to work on warming up some cold cases. Let's go. Hey, guys, welcome to another episode of Primetime Crime. It's Kylie. We are going to dive into right now on true crime. I do want to start off by talking a little bit about the Karen Reid trial and the case and everything that's going on. We've kind of talked the case and the mistrial and all of that off and on. I did want to go ahead and let you guys know that my friends over at Love Mary kill Rich and Tina are in the process of doing a Karen Reid John O'Keefe rundown dive, telling you the whole story. I really did not know the details of the story. So I'm a subscriber of their Patreon because they're the best and they're amazing, so I get early access to the episodes which we love, and they have a whole series going on right now where they are talking about all the details of the case. So if you don't know the case, I highly suggest that you check out their podcast, Love Mary Kill, and that will lead me into a little bit of right now. In True Crime Karen Read News, they are saying that a decision on a new trial could be reached officially on Monday, So if you're listening to this Sunday night, we could know something as soon as tomorrow. So I will be sure to keep you guys updated. And I'm expecting that they are going to continue on and try to get another trial. But I think it will be interesting to see if there is a new trial, what transpires and what goes on, because the first trial was just kind of all over the place and that's why it ended the way it ended. But I will continue to keep you guys updated on that. In Harvey Weinstein News, the absolute most disgusting human on planet Earth, one of them in my opinion. Allegedly, he is set to have a retrial on a New York rape charge. It is tentatively set for November twelve. Harvey, who is seventy two, has denied any wrongdoing and has denied having any non consensual sexual encounters with anyone. He was found guilty on rape charges in February of twenty twenty, but the New York Court of Appeals throughout the conviction in April of this year, finding that he did not get a fair trial because the judge improperly allowed testimony by accusers. He was not firmly charged with assaulting. But I really don't think that they're going to have any trouble getting a conviction in this new trial. But they do. Of course, you have to do things fairly, and they have to, of course make sure that the person is getting a fair trial, no matter what we think about them, we have to make sure that they have a fair trial. So I will keep you guys updated, but tentatively we are looking at November for a retrial in the New York rape charges against Harvey. But I will continue to keep you guys updated on that as more comes out. I don't really have a whole lot more to talk about, but I wanted to take a little bit of time during this right now in true crime and highlight a missing person. Her name is Bianca Carrasco. She went missing May first of twenty sixteen from northeast San Antonio, Texas. She was last seen at her home and she has been missing since twenty sixteen. Today is her thirty eighth birthday, and this case has really taken social media by storm Instagram, TikTok. Her family is really working on keeping her story out there, keeping her face out there, so hopefully somebody will come forward that has information. Bianca is a mother, she has children, She has a family that wants to know what happened to her and wants closure. And I think this is the really cool part about social media is her family said for her birthday, please share her flyer and let's try to get some new eyes on her case. And I think that that is the cool power of social media, how you can have people from all over the world, all over the country come together to share a particular story in hopes that it reaches the right set of eyes, the person that might have the missing piece of the puzzle that can help figure out what happened. So on this day, please go to my Instagram Facebook and I posted Bianca's flyer on my feed. Please share it no matter how much you can. I think you might not be helping. The more reach we can get for Beyonca's story, the better. So I wanted to take a little bit of time during this intro right now in True Crime to share Beyonca's story. Invite you to check out the Facebook and Instagram post I made about Bianca and just do a simple, quick little share to your feed or your story, and who knows if you are the person that might reach the person that knows something about what happened to Bianca and can get closure for her family. She's been missing since twenty sixteen, and that's incredibly too long for a family not to know what happened to their loved one. So please please share in honor of Beyonca's birthday, and let's get the family some answers and some closure. So I feel like that's really it for anything major going on right now in True Crime. I'm sure there is probably stuff I'm missing, but I wanted to cover those couple of things I want to talk about Bianca. So we are going to go ahead and get started with today's episode. Okay, guys, we are jumping into part two today of Robert Wan and when we ended last episode, we ended pretty much with the three men who lived in the home, Victor, Joe, and Dylan all down at the police station given their version of events of what happened, and they all pretty much stuck to the same story. But law enforcement very much wanted to try to divide them, and even though they didn't have sufficient evidence that they were necessarily involved or one of them was involved, they very much wanted to try to get them to turn on each other, which spoiler alert that never happened. But they did take the outlier, who was Dylan, and they gave him a lie detector test and they asked him a couple of questions, do you know who killed Robert? Are you the one that killed Robert? Basically is what they asked, and he answered no to both of those questions, and it showed that deception was, of course detected. Now we know that light detector tests cannot be used in a court of law because they are flawed and they're not always one hundred percent. But regardless of this, they took that information back to Joe, and they took it back to Victor and they said, look, we have a man that failed a light detect your chest and we know that you're lying, So you need to tell us the truth. None of them ever wavered in their story. We also now have Joe, who is a good friend of Robert. He's known him since he was eighteen years old. They were really good friends. He was in his wedding like very close with Joe. So Joe says initially, he said initially that he saw the knife on Robert, like laying on his chest, and he picked it up and put it next to the bed, on like a nightstand kind of table situation. But then he later says, I don't know if the knife was in his chest or if it was just on top, but if it was in I obviously had to have pulled it out. And again, when you're experiencing trauma like that, you really don't know how you're going to react, what your good instinct is gonna be. But regardless of that, I think now I can't judge because I've never been in this situation. But if I come across a situation where one of my very best friends has a knife in their chest and I think I'm gonna pull this out, I'm gonna remember that I pulled a knife out of someone's chest, I'm not gonna think, well, maybe it was lying on the chest, maybe it was in the chest. Regardless, I'm gonna I think I would remember. But again, you cannot judge someone for how they handle trauma and what they remember from their trauma. But that story very much changed from his initial story, and he even said I touched it. My fingerprints and DNA are probably on it. So if you think that I did this, I didn't. All I did was touch the knife and take it away from Robert. So, twenty four hours after the murder, an autopsy was of course performed, and the medical examiner finds a few things that just struck her as being really, really odd. So she noticed that there was three what she calls perfect slit like defects in the front of Robert's torso, and they were pretty much identical in with and depth, basically meaning that they were very precise, And there was no movement from Robert during this time, meaning that Robert did not fight back. He didn't have any defensive wounds or anything on his hand, he had no blood on his hands, and this is a violent stabbing, so you would think that if he was awake and aware at all, that of course he would have fought back. Because it's human nature and human reaction. You're not just going to let someone come in and stab you without you fighting back. So this very much makes you want to ask, well, why didn't he fight back? What was going on with him at that time that he didn't fight back? And the medical examiner also said that the type of wounds that Robert had, she would have expected there to be a lot of blood loss, and the scene was very minimal on the blood. There wasn't really a lot of blood. She ended up concluding that the cause of death was stab wounds and the manner of death was homicide, and she also said that the wounds weren't immediately fatal. There had been some blood that had leaked into Robert's small intestine and there was also a blood clot that was filling a portion of the small intestine, and in that case, that means that he was still alive for some time after each stab wound was inflicted. So they kind of go back to the drawing board and they're trying to figure out how was he incapacitated, what happened that led to him not being able to fight back and fight for his life. They didn't have any evidence that he was tied up with any ligatures or anything like that, so they thought maybe he was under the influence of some type of drugs. They did find some needle marks that were kind of all over. He had some on his neck, some on the back of his hands, some on his ankles, some on the top of his feet, and they thought, well, let's circle back and check with the hospital and the EMTs that tended to Robert that night to see if maybe they attempted to start at IV and they were unsuccessful, but sure enough, nobody had any explanation for why Robert would have these needle marks on him, so they sent off the toxicology and they waited for that. So at this point in time, it is still it's only a day after Robert has been murdered, and the three men Victor, Joe, and Dylan have all painted this picture of an intruder came in, they killed Robert, and then they left. And Cathy, who is Robert's wife, of course, she believes them. She believes that this is what happened, and they're victims in this as well, like it was just kind of wrong place, wrong time, kind of situation. As far as Robert goes, and she's very much on their side and thinking that, yeah, this is exactly what happened. But on the other side of things, law enforcement is trying to zero in on these guys. They think that they are that they know more than what they're saying, and there's a lot more to this than meets the eye, because it is so crazy to think that on the one night that Robert is spending the night there, that somebody would randomly break in, target him, target nobody else, take nothing from the home, and then slip out into the night without anyone seeing them. It just doesn't make sense. So the investigators very much thought all along that one of these three or all three of these guys were involved in something, and the defense attorney for Joe said that basically from the start, the investigators thought that it was one of the guys or all three of them, and they basically just had tunnel vision. They didn't even try to investigate the intruder theory or even go down any of the other possibilities because they were so focused on these three guys. And I think, to be fair, a lot of the times this happen, and we've seen it in the past where law enforcement focuses on a particular person, and that person ends up being railroaded for this crime that they didn't commit, and there's no evidence that they committed it, but they are so focused and just zeroing in on this person that that person ends up going to jail for it. I don't think that that was necessarily the case here. I do feel like they had a little bit of a lake to stand on with their suspicions of Dylan, Joe and Victor, if nothing else. I feel like they did what they were supposed to do to try to at least eliminate them as suspects and maybe be able to look in a different direction. But they never really were able to get there because there was just so many inconsistencies all across the board with every single thing that they came across. So now we are going to hear from Glenn Kirchner. He is the prosecutor that ended up eventually bringing this case to trial, and we are going to listen to the reason why he doesn't believe that the intruder theory is actually fact. And when you hear him say it and you hear him lay it out, it makes totally complete sense to me. Mistake about it. There was no intruder. His client offered the intruder theory, so there is zero evidence of an intruder in the house. To this day, I haven't been here at more than a decade. It looks different. This is all new. You can see same fences right here, seven feet. The intruder would have somehow had to have catapulted over that fence without disturbing the pollen cobwebs. After the intruder drops into the backyard, goes over here. He doesn't get the large knife out of the butcher block. No, he gets one of the modest sized steak knives and then makes his way through the house into the living room. Not interested in any expensive electronic equipment apparently, he turns and up the stairs he goes. The stairs have been replaced, they don't creak anymore, but they were allowed sixteen years ago. So once the intruder gets to the top of the stairs, he is right smack in front of Dylan's bedroom door. Has no interest in going in that room. Instead, turns one hundred and eighty degrees and makes his way to the front of the row house. The intruder doesn't stab Robert upon entering the room. We know he didn't stab Robert here because of the orientation of the wounds. Instead, the intruder walks around the bottom of the bed. Now at the time there was a at the foot of the bed, two wallets on that table, a BlackBerry, a Mevado watch. The intruder has no interest in any of those items. Instead, he continues on to this side of the bed, at which point the intruder inserts a knife into Robert's torso three times one two three. The intruder either left the knife in Roberts torso or removed it and laid it on top of Robert's torso. Joe Price told both of those stories to the police. At that point, the intruder comes back around. The intruder heads to the back of the row house, right in front of Dylan's door, has no interest in going in there. Instead, he heads down the stairs, decides not to go out the front door because Joe and company tell the detectives that remained dead vaulted. So the intruder makes his way back through the back door into the backyard, leaping over for the fence again, and he disappears into the night, unseen, unheard, undetected, leaving no evidence of himself ever having been inside fifteen oh nine Swan Stream. Now, I don't know about you, guys, but it's just impossible, especially if you watch it. You have to watch this documentary on Peacock to get a little more insight into the layout of the home, because it's a very large home, it's a very nice home, and it's just not reasonable. Why would anybody come into that house randomly attack Robert, who was not even going to be there, and then leave without any sign of robbery or anything like that. There's no sign of a break in, there's no sign of anything. So the intruder theory does not fit, and I stand by that. I do not believe it fits. I don't believe anyone that has really looked into this case it fits. I do feel like it was a good thing to investigate, of course, but I don't think that there's any evidence that any intruder entered that house that night and killed Robert. Now, this is a really interesting little tidbit of information. Do you guys remember when I talked about there being a scream that was heard by one of the neighbors, So they were, of course homes that were row homes and they shared a wall, and the walls were not, you know, super well insulated necessarily, so you could hear a lot of what was going on. So the neighbors that were next door to fifteen oh nine Swan Street, it was an older couple and they watched the local news every single night at the same time, and they said that while they were watching the local news, they heard the scream. And this was between eleven and eleven thirty PM. And this scream becomes very, very crude because there was seventy nine minutes between the time that Robert arrived to the home and when Victor called nine one one. The news program was over by eleven thirty, So this scream happened anywhere between eleven and eleven thirty. And this scream, in fact, was the scream that came from Victor when he saw Robert's body. So at the latest, this scream happened at eleven thirty pm. Nine to one one was not called until eleven forty nine PM, meaning there was a at least nineteen minute gap. Maybe more like I said, the scream happened somewhere between eleven and eleven thirty nine one one wasn't called until eleven forty nine. So what happened in this time if it was nineteen minutes, if was thirty nine minutes, what happened in this amount of time between the scream, Victor seeing Robert's body and what had happened and the nine one one call. There was also the way of the NIMAL one call. During the NIM on one call, Victor randomly he's like hyperventilating, freaking out because his friend has been stabbed and there was an intruder and he killed Robert or stabbed Robert, and then he just calmly says, what time is? It? Just random? Right, like, obviously I don't like to judge people when they're in the midst of trauma and dealing with something that's unthinkable. But the very calmly what time is it is very interesting and they all thought so too, all the investigators, the lead prosecutor, they all thought that this was really interesting as well. Also during the nine one one call, he talks about the fact that the intruder has the knife, and the knife came from the kitchen and the knife was there on the bedside table all along. And Victor also says, we a lot in the nine one one call, meaning like, we didn't see anything, we didn't hear anything. So had they previously talked about what they saw what they heard or was it a frantic we need to call nine one one. Robert has been attacked. So basically, what the investigators, the lead prosecutor, they were thinking that the whole thing was a murder and this was the attempted cover up that they were seeing right in front of their eyes. What they think happened is Robert was stabbed. They ended up waiting, they covered it up, staged everything to look the way it looked. They had Victor make a very emotional nimal one call, which I do feel like he was emotional and believable in that nine one one call my opinion. So now is where things get really interesting. And I did put it at the beginning of the episode as a trigger warning, but I am going to trigger warning it again. We are about to talk about sexual assault and some really disturbing, disturbing details. So when the investigators were at the house, they did search all the they searched the premises. Of course, they searched Dylan's room and they found hundreds and hundreds of sexual devices, a very what they call extensive collection of torture devices, restraints, tons of BDSM items, and it literally goes on for pages and pages and pages of all the items that were found in Dylan's room. They basically were at this point thinking did any of this and all of this BDSM lifestyle stuff have anything to do with Robert's death. They thought that maybe Robert was sexually assaulted, so they said that they wanted to do a rape kit exam on Robert, which they did. So the results of that came and they did find some semen around Robert's genitals and inside of his rectum. So they thought, smoking gun, we are gonna be able to send this off for DNA analysis, and we are going to figure out who was responsible for his death. But once they got the DNA back, it came back as being Robert's own semen, which is very bizarre and odd for that to be inside of Robert's own rectum. How did that happen? So they started to dig a little deeper into all of the different items that were found in Dylan's room. So one of the things that was in there was a pulse electric tens machine and in the way that it's used in the BDSM world. It's used to kind of force stimulation of ejaculation. So they thought that maybe this was used on Robert and that is the reason that things appeared the way that they appeared. But there wasn't any of Robert's DNA found on any of Dylan's sex toys, so kind of had another dead end. They then went and said, we need to get a search warran of all of the computers that were in the house that belonged to all of the guys, and they had a large amount of porn images on them all, as well as images of Joe and Dylan pornographic images that they had created. And in amongst looking at these pictures, they realized that the narrative of Joe being the one who was in charge and who is the boss about everything kind of changed because in the sexual relationship between Joe and Dylan, Dylan was very much the one in charge. Joe was more of the submissive one and Dylan was the dominant one. And this really much changed and flipped the narrative as to who was who in the relationship. So they thought, well, how far does this go? Does Dylan commit a crime and then Joe has to help him cover a crime, even if it means his best one of his best friends has been murdered and now Joe was forced into helping him cover it up. They ended up finding a online profile for Joe on a sexual website called a dot com, and on this website he listed all of his sexual interests and they were all very very violent things like violent torture. And this again led investigators to believe that if there was a way for them to restrain Robert without hurting him, it would be Joe and Dylan who knew how to do it. And they thought maybe they attempted to do something to Robert with Robert and it went too far. And then, of course there is another theory that Robert was a willing participant in this type of sexual behavior. However, when Joe is asked about this, he very very much denies that Robert was gay or ever brought up anything about wanting to engage in any type of relationship with men. He was very very happily married, loved his wife, and that was never even a thought that ever came out of Robert's mouth. They also found out that Robert had a night guard in his mouth when he was killed, and that is the last thing that he would do every night before he went to sleep. He would brush his teeth and then he would put the mouth guard in and go to sleep. So this also very much pokes holes in the theory that Robert was a willing participant and any kind of sexual experience with Joe and Dylan because of this mouthguard. He always put that in his mouth right before he would get ready to go to sleep. The toxicology reports came back and it showed nothing in Robert's system. He was negative for any drugs. However, the toxicology report doesn't always show up with any type of paralytics that might be in the system because they typically will break down in the system and they kind of come out as like natural substances, so they're usually not present on a talk screen and they're usually pretty undetectable. So there's no way to really say if Robert was in fact drugged with something that could have incapacitated him paralyzed him temporarily, so this horrible sexual assault could occur. So in the midst of this, this is literally just a few days after the murder, so they're still investigating they're still bouncing around all of these theories. Robert's funeral happened on a Tuesday, and Joe and the other guys were all invited to the funeral. Joe ended up being a pawbearer at the funeral, and it very much at this point in time, Kathy, Robert's widow, believed that the guys were also victims. They were victims of this horrific human who in killed Robert and then left and then just left destruction in his path. So at the funeral, Kathy of course has her line to receive condolences, and Joe also had a line forming to receive condolences and was very much playing himself to be a victim in this crime as well. But some of Robert's other friends found it extremely odd that detectives showed up to the funeral, so they thought something must be going on, something more must be going on than meets the eye. So from their investigators are at a dead end again. They didn't get anything back with the DNA, they didn't get anything back with the toxicology, so they went back to the drawing board and they said, we need to figure out where all of the blood that potentially could have been at this crime scene, Where did it go? What happened? Was it cleaned up? So they ended up bringing in a canine crew, and this canine crew hit on two locations. One of them was in the lit trap of the dryer, and the dog also had alerted on a rear stairwell drain that was outside. And again this was such a minute thing that they weren't able to extract any blood or any kind of DNA or anything to say for sure that there had been blood or some type of evidence that had been in those areas. So then they decided that they were going to try to see if there was any blood anywhere in the house that had been cleaned up. So they brought in a team to do this, and unfortunately, whoever did it applied the agent improperly, which means anything that was there potentially that could have given them clues as to if blood had been there or not. It was a wrect scene, so they weren't able to find any evidence that they potentially could have used because it was not done properly. About a month after Robert's murder, they finally got the DNA from the knife back and they learned that there wasn't any fingerprints or DNA that matched anyone in the house. There was really nothing on the knife at all, and they also said that the knife size didn't really match the actual wounds that Robert had on his body. There was also some white cotton fibers that were found on the knife which were consistent with the towel that Joe had used allegedly to stop the bleeding. So how did these fibers from the towel get onto the knife. They said that it almost was like somebody had taken the towel, dipped it in the blood, and then applied the blood to the knife. There was also three cuts on Robert's shirt which had corresponded with the wounds on his chest, and he was wearing a gray T shirt and there was no gray T shirt fibers found on this knife. So they are very suspecting at this point that the knife that was found on the bedside table was not the knife that killed Robert. Now, in a very interesting but not so interesting twist of events, they found a knife set in Dylan's room, which is obviously where you keep all of your good knife sets, right. It was a three piece set and the smaller knife from the set was missing, and this knife had a shorter blade, which was way more consistent with the incisions that were made on Robert's torso versus the butcher block kitchen knife that they said was the murder weapon. Guys, this story just keeps getting crazier and crazier. Just when you think it's gotten crazy, it keeps getting crazier. And honestly, this is part two and I have a lot more to talk about still with this case, so we are going to officially make this one a three parter. I apologize. I'm trying to keep these episodes a little on their shore because they are, in my opinion, a little overwhelming. I'm overwhelmed by them. So we're breaking it down because there's a lot of information to cover and we still haven't even gotten to the part where they actually take the three men to trial and everything that happened with that, and everything that's happened since trial as well, because this case is a few years old at this point, so there's a lot more that we still need to talk about. And Glenn Kirshner is a very good speaker. I've heard him speak at crime con many a times, and him telling The story never will not fascinate me because there are so many components to it, and I feel like in listening to the story, you know that there is something sinister that went on in that house that night, and it's really unfortunate that we're still kind of wondering who killed Robert and what are they going to pay for it? But we're gonna call that good for part two. I will be back with part three officially on Friday, and then we will be moving on to a new cold case. But I appreciate you guys listening as always, and I will see you next time for the conclusion of our Robert one episode. You guys, stay safe and have a great one. Bye.