Summer Series 2025: Pike County Massacre: Part 5

Welcome to Summer Series twenty twenty five, The Roden Family Murders, also known as the Pike County Massacre. We're going to be discussing the murders of Dana Roden, Christopher Roden Senior, Kenneth Roden, Gary Roden, Frankie Rodin, Hannah Hazel Gilly, Hannah Roden, and Christopher Roden Junior. Let's go ahead and dive right into Summer Series twenty twenty five. Welcome to Part five of the Pike County Massacre, the Rodin Family Murders. We are going to continue on today going through Jake Wagner's testimony. Now, if you guys recall you have been following along with this series, Jake Wagner testified against his brother, George Wagner the fourth for a lesser sentence essentially, so he is laying everything out. And when we left off last episode, it was at the point where Jake Wagner had agreed that the only way that they were going to be able to keep custody of Sophia would be to kill Hannah. So they asked that when Jake told Billy Wagner that he agreed to this, did they start immediately making plans, or if they did, what were the plans, And he said, I'm not sure if it was immediate or not, but he was saying essentially that he was going to try to think of something, and his initial suggestion was to make it look like Corey had killed Hannah and then committed suicide after. So his initial plan was basically just to kill Hannah and Corey and to frame Corey for her death. And he had also thought about possibly just killing Hannah, but he knew if he just killed Hannah that the finger would immediately be pointed at him, and that Chris Senior, Frankie, and Kenneth would immediately know that he was involved and would be down on him, and the only way to avoid that was pretty much to kill them all. And then he went on to say that the other individuals, Dana Rodin, Gary Roden, Chris Junior, and Hannah, Hazel Gilly were pretty much just there and that is the reason that they had to die because they were in the same households and it was impossible to get in and kill Chris Senior, to kill Frankie, and to kill Hannah, and to kill Kenneth without taking the others out as well. So that is how this plan evolved into what it became, which was a eight person massive homicide. And I can't even imagine the rationale that went into all of this, how they plotted and planned and meticulously tried to figure all of this out, and not one of them along the way came up and said, Hey, this is a horrible idea. We shouldn't do this. These are eight separate people we're going to in their family. I can't even imagine doing anything like this ever, ever, ever, in my life. Ever. The next bit of testimony is about the guns that were used in the killings and how Jake got those guns, and how they planned on which guns they were going to use. It talks about them making the silencers and everything that went into that. It is a lot of testimony. It is a lot of gun talk, not really, in my opinion, anything I super need to go into here, because we've already kind of laid out the basics of what investigators believed the guns were that were used in the eighth person homicide. So this is just Jake reiterating what they used, why they decided to use what they used, the making of the silencers, how they went about that and how they planned all of that out. So I'm not going to go into all the details of that. The transcript is available online if you want to read through a thousand and seventy seven pages like I have of this transcript, So I will link that below in the show notes for you guys, so that way, if you do want to read it word for word, you can. But I cannot go through pages and pages of testimony talking about guns and all the things. It's just not in my wheelhouse. The next bit of testimony is about the Walmart shoes and how that kind of came to be, where the shoes came from, who bought the shoes, all the things about the shoes. So Jake said that he and George and Sophia all went with her and the nephew to Walmart, and they were inside of the car when she went and bought the shoes. He had basically told her to just buy ugly tennis shoes, two size ten tennis shoes, and she went into Walmart and bought the shoes. There is other talk about different items that were purchased to carry out the mur There was stuff from bass Pro, there was stuff to make the silencers for the guns. There was winter masks, there was so on and so forth, a lot of items that this family purchased to execute their plan. The next bit of questioning is about the custody documents that Hannah allegedly signed, which Hannah did not sign, and Jake said that that was not Hannah's signature, that was his mother's signature forging as Hannah, and this was a document, of course, referencing custody of Sophia if something should happen to Hannah. Jake then goes on to talk about some of the modifications he made to the truck that he had purchased from his uncle, and this was one of the vehicles that was used to carry out the heinous axe against the Rodent family, and there was different things he did. One of them had to do with something with the lights illuminating and thing with the tail lights us headlights, and he basically did this to make the vehicle more stealth. Jake then goes on to talk about how he and George dyed his hair shortly before the murders. They had picked a brown color, but it turned out to be black, and they both dyed their hair. The reason he dyed his hair is because he wanted the color and style of the main character in The Walking Dead, and that is Darryl Dixon, who is played by Norman Ritas. I have said that, for whatever reason, Jake has this obsession with Norman Ritas. Jake then goes on to say that his dad was very much behind the scenes kind of planning things out a little bit more, looking at weather forecasts because he wanted the murders to take place on an overcast night. And the reason for that, according to Jake, was because the satellites cannot video through an overcast a sky, so that is why he wanted the murders to take place on this overcast night. Now, shortly before the murders, Hannah had given birth to her baby, so there was also some thought and planning as far as when they were going to hit because obviously Hannah had been in the hospital having her baby, and they needed to make sure that Hannah was back home and settled in, So there was some thought and plan and process to that as far as when they were going to execute this family. They asked Jake if there was any thought in his mind that this child could be his, and he said no, and they asked if you would want her to be yours and he said yes. So none of that makes any sense to me, because you're already in a vicious custody battle with Hannah and you want another child with her. It just doesn't make any sense to me. This thought process and how these people rationalize all of the crazy thoughts that come into their head makes no sense. They then go back to some of the modifications that were made to the truck that was used that night, and Jake said that he put a false bed cover on it. And he said, I had made a plywood cover that just set below the bedrails to stack hay or straw or something on top of the vehicle to make it look like the bed was fully loaded with hay. And they asked what the purpose was of making the false bed and he said it was to have a compartment underneath the hay to where myself and my brother could hide in it while my dad drove to Chris's property. So, again, this is just another step in the right direction to proving that George Wagner the fourth was part of this. They had a plan, he was involved, and this is helping the state very much proved their case against George Wagner. The fourth they continue to talk about different truck modifications and stuff at the family's property and just different types of barns and storage units and all the things, and then they talk about what they were going to wear that night, if they had talked and prepared about what they were gonna wear, and he said sche mask, gloves, hoodies, dark baggy clothes, and the shoes that his mom bought at Walmart. He goes on to say that the shoes were size ten and a half and eleven and they asked, you recall which size shoe you wore that night, and he said ten and a half and he said that George wore the other pair. They asked if they had any other weapons on them that night besides the guns that they used to commit the crimes, and Jake said that he had a large hunting knife on him, and they asked if his dad or George had any other weapons, and he said not that he knew of. They then talk about Jake watching a clip from the Boone Doc Saints movie that night, and he said that he did, and he goes on to describe the scene for the attorneys and the jury. He said he watched it that night at his home and his brother and mother were present, and they asked why he chose to watch them specific clip, and he said, in a sense. I'm not completely sure, but I think it was due to a sense of trying to I think the word is to psych myself into the gumption of doing what I was about to do. So the plan that night was for Billy Wagner to be driving the pickup truck and George and Jake would be hiding in the false bed so nobody would see them. And this is where we really get into the nitty gritty. So they say, what was the first location that you were going to be going to, and he said Chris Senior. So they asked, okay, what was the plan once you got to Chris Senior's house and he said, Dad was to get the attention of Chris. I think he said he was going to walk out of the garage or the growroom, and when he would come back, as he was walking in first he would let us out of the vehicle and once we was in position, then he would take Chris to the barn or the grow room, and on his way back is when he was supposed to be shot. Didn't feel anything or see anything coming. Jake said they left around nine o'clock that evening to go carry out their plan, and he left his phone at home and had told his mom to use the phone go on Facebook a couple of times, basically to throw off the track of where Jake actually was and make it look like he was home and scrolling social media. Jake said it is about fifteen miles from their property to Chris Senior's home, and he lays out what happened. He said, my dad parked the vehicle out front, and I can't quite remember if he did this immediately or maybe come back out a very very short period of time. I think he did immediately. When he got out, he came to the back of the truck and said something about waiting for a signal of some kind or something like that he'd be back or something, and then went inside Chris's house and they said, at this point in time, you and your brother are still completely enclosed in that bed, and he said, yeah, yes. He said. They remained in the bed for about ten minutes, and then Dad came back out. He had lowered the tailgate, had told my brother and I to get in position. So basically Billy had Gary and Chris. They had gone out to the grow room, which was behind a barn that Chris Senior had built, and at this point in time, Billy is kind of leading the charge. His two sons, Jake and George Wagner the Fourth, are in a prone position on their bellies ready to take a shot at Chris and Gary as they are exiting the grow room and coming back towards the area where the house is now. George Wagner the Fourth did have an open shot, but he did not take the shot, so Jake said at that point he had reached over and grabbed the gun from him. And then at some point in time, Billy comes back out to the truck and he is searching, pretending to search for his cell phone. And the whole reason that the cell phone was left behind was essentially to trick Chris into calling it. And meanwhile, the phone is at home with Angela Wagner. So therefore Billy has an alibi because the phone never left the Wagner family residence that night. And when Billy goes out to the car to pretend to look for his phone, he asked George what happened, and basically was trying to figure out why didn't Chris get shot, what happened in the whole situation, So he ends up going back inside. At this point, Chris is still trying to call Billy's phone so Billy can find his phone and thinking he left it in the truck. I'm sure Chris just was innocently trying to help his friend. And in all of this, Jake Wagner took a shot and he missed. He missed Chris, and then he panicked. He closed his eyes and he just pointed and fired randomly. So Billy comes out of the house and is essentially having a nervous breakdown because he just cold bloodedly murdered his best friend, somebody he refers to as his brother. He's having a nervous breakdown. Jake is trying to calm his dad down. And then Jake said he went into Chris's house and he got the keys out of his pocket and then went outside into the grow room above the motorcycle garage to get any hard drive he could from the security system because he wanted to make sure that there was no proof or evidence that they were there that night, So he said, after he got the security camera tapes, he went back into the house and went to the bedroom and got him and Gary's cell phones out of their pocket, and he said, at this point in time, Chris and Gary were located in Chris's bedroom. They asked if he helped move the bodies. He said no, but the bodies were drug from the front of the house back to the bedroom. And he said that there was blood on the floor. He kind of tried to wipe it up. He pulled a blanket down over Chris and Gary and then he tried to wipe the floor with the rug to get rid of some of the blood. Jake said, after he retrieved their phones, he went back outside to meet up with his brother and his dad and then they walked up to Frankie's house. So they asked if they had walked or driven to Frankie's house, and he said that they walked. He said before they got there, that they stopped at the corner by a telephone pole and that his dad had gone to the front of the trailer to see if the door was locked or unlocked, and it was locked, So then they went back to the telephone pole and he then walked to the opposite side to see if the back door was locked, and it was locked, and they kind of had a little bit of conversation and said that it might have to be a kick the door in type of situation. But then they decided to go back to Chris's house and they got Chris's truck, and he said after that he thinks they went to Dana's house to see if she was home. And they asked if when they were at Frankie's house if they noticed any lights on or any activity inside, and he said, I think Dad had said something about the TV being on, but all of the lights were off. So they went to Dana's house and Dana wasn't home because she worked at a nursing home and she worked kind of funky hours, so Dana was not home, and they turned around and decided to go swing by Kenneth's home to see if he was home. Now at that point, it is the three boys in the truck. It is Jake, it is George Wagner at the fourth and Billy Wagner. They did discover that Kenneth was home, but they went ahead and went back to Chris's house, and then when they got back there they went to Frankie's. They walked back around the same way, went to the back of the house, tried to open the back door. He used his hunting knife to try to probably open the back door, and it broke, so the door wouldn't open because they didn't have that knife anymore. And then he said that he had noticed that the window was opened under the middle bedroom, so they walked past it. He passed his dad the gun that he was holding, and he boosted himself into the home, up and down in through the open window. He said. He reached back out and had his dad hand him the gun, and then he went into the hallway and took a glance into Frankie's room. He could tell that somebody, seemingly Frankie was in the bed and asleep. And then he noticed that Frankie's son, Brentley was on the couch asleep. So Jake is now inside. He opened the back door, he let Billy Wagner in and then he walked back into Frankie's room and he shot Frankie. And then he saw that Hannah Hazel Gilly was there and he shot her as well. And he said, because of the nature of the room. He didn't search for their cell phones or for different shellcasings. And then after that he said they had walked back out to the living room and went outside, and that he locked the door behind him. They asked if he realized that there was an infant in the bed with Frankie and Hannah Hazel Gilly, and he said no, he didn't realize that until after he had leaned over to shoot her, and that is when he realized that there was a kid there. Oh my god, this really just actually turns my stomach. How evil of a person you can be to do this to people when their children are right there. I cannot even handle this, and it makes me even more frustrated knowing the outcome of all this, and knowing Jake Wagner's sentence, which we'll get to in a later episode, but wow, it really astonishes me that he got up there and told everything that happened in such detail, and what these poor people went through I can't even imagine. So then after they finished at Frankie's house, they went back to Chris Senior's house and decided they were going to go back to Dana's. These people were so dumb to go back and forth between the crime scenes. I don't understand why they did what they did. So they ended up going back to Dana's house, and he said they pulled up in the driveway and at this point in time it was raining and thundering, and they ended up getting out of the vehicle. They walked up to the front door, checked to see if the door was locked, and it was not, so he said, he went ahead and opened it and went in the house and went in, didn't see anybody in the front room, and then ended up walking into another area of the home that was behind the kitchen, and there was a hallway that connected Dana and Hannah's bedrooms and there was no doorway in that hallway, so he said, as he got to that point, he looked into Hannah's room to see if she was asleep, and it did appear that Hannah was sleep and then he looked into Dana's room and realized that she was still awake and on her phone. And he said, in that moment that he kind of froze and didn't really know what to do. He doesn't know how long he froze for, but then he heard baby Kylie cry, and that kind of jarred him to do something and to move. But he doesn't really even know how to describe his state of mind. He doesn't know if he was in shock or what it was. But he said, once he came out of his state, he moved to the left and took a couple of strides, maybe one or two towards Dana. And as he did that, she looked up and made a gasping noise before he shot her once or twice. And then he said, he immediately turned around and did the same motion, but at that point in time, Hannah had kind of awoken and was looking directly at him. He said, he entered the bedroom, he was still in the hallway, and he went ahead and shot her, and then he said, he turned around, went back to Dana, shot her a second time, and then went back to Hannah and shot her a second time. Then he said, after that, he kind of went back to the door of Dana's bedroom. He opened the door, and when he opened the door, his dad and brother were standing right there, and then he walked past them, walked over to Christopher Junior's room, opened Chris's door and he was asleep, and he walked over and shot him. Once or twice, and he said he did kind of make a noise, kind of like a grunt, and he said he panicked and shot him a few more times, and then he started picking up shell casings. He went back to Dana and Hannah's rooms and picked up shell casings, and he said that Hannah had slightly fallen off the bed, so he put her back on the bed to position her for Kylie. And then they left. And it was really hard for me to read all of that. That is actually the most disturbing thing. I feel like I've ever heard, word for word. I can't even fathom doing that. Three people making the decision to go through with something so horrifically brutal. They then talk to him about why he repositioned Hannah, and he said that he did that to help Kylie because he was concerned that she would starve to death. So you brutally murder the mother of your child, her mother, and her brother, and you've already killed four other people, that's besides the point. And then all of a sudden you decide that you're going to have a soul and are concerned about a baby starving to death. That makes actually no sense to me, but I guess if nothing else, the baby was not harmed. Frankie and Hannah Hazel Gilly's kids were not harmed, at least not physically harmed, And they very much are trying to figure out out in all of this where George Wagner the fourth is, because he is obviously the one who's on trial for murder, so they're trying to figure out where he was, if he was directly involved in any way, shape or form, or if he basically just stood there while Jake did all of the bad things. But honestly, at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter because they all partook, and they were all part of this horrific plan, and not one of them decided to put a stop to it. So they ended up leaving Dana's house. They got back in to the truck that they took from Chris's house. They drove past Chris's house and they ended up stopping and then George got their truck and they went down to Kenneth's house. He said. They pulled in right up to the front of Kenneth's camper and Dad told him to wait there, and then Billy got out, walked up to the door, beat on the door a few times, nobody answered, and then Billy opened the door, walked in, shut the door behind him. Jake says he saw a muzzle flash a second, maybe two seconds, and then Billy walked out, and Jake said at that point he turned the headlights off to the truck. He ended up getting out, and he said they went over to Kennisquaw Room and once they went inside, they were looking for the security hard drive to take it, and they couldn't find anything. They did find a trail camera in one of the trees and they were able to get that camera, and then they all got back in their vehicle and they drove home. And that was all of the murders that they had all just committed. So once they got home, they parked in the new barn that they had built, and they had pretty much gotten out. They removed all of their clothing and all the floor mats from the vehicle, and he said he put all of that into a burn barrel, and the unburnable items he took elsewhere, and he took the firearms. He used a grinder, a portable grinder to cut up into smaller pieces, and then proceeded to use a cutting torch to melt the firearms, and he said he did not have enough material supplies to finish the job, so they were only partially destroyed, and he put them into a Duffel bag. And he said, as this was happening, his dad had taken the Chevy truck and had taken it to another location, and he was not aware of where they had taken it at the time. And he said that he had proceeded to dig a hole inside of the barn to bury the Duffel bag for a later date. And once they removed their clothes, they went to the house, they changed into new clothes, and then that's when he said his dad had taken the truck to another location and he went to dig the hole. And he said his brother George was helping him with all of this, and they talk about the continuation of destroying the firearms and the digging of the holes to hide the Duffel bag, and they went on and on and on about that, and he said when they were doing all of the stuff, concealing the evidence and burning things and destroying things and all of that, it was still nigh time, so they were essentially trying to do what they could while it was still dark out to hide as much evidence as they possibly could. By the time they finished with everything, it was morning, and he said while he was doing all the bearing and the burning, his brother had gone to do the morning feed routes for the livestock that they had and gathered tools, and they just pretty much carried on with life as usual, went about their normal routines and did what they normally do. So then he said, they are back at the house. They entered the house, they watched the news broadcast and they asked who was present during the news broadcast, and he said himself, George Wagner, Angela Wagner, Billy Wagner, and the kids were awake at the house, but they were watching cartoons in another room, and he said they saw the news report about the homicides. They asked, do they report how many people had been killed or who had been killed? And he said, I can't remember quite exactly what it was reporting. I do remember a helicopter image of Chris Senior's home. And they asked if it was common for them to watch the news, and he said, not for myself. And there was some conversation bits in pieces between the four of them, and he remembers Billy Wagner saying something about there being homicides, and they said something about it being the Rodents or one of the Rodents or something like that, which is just asinine behavior, knowing that you committed these murders and then you're talking about it like you have no idea what happened or who it was. What is wrong with these people? They then go on to ask Jake what the situation was with Sophia when she was with her mom versus when she was with him, and he clarified that Sophia was not present with Hannah that night, and he said generally the visitation arrangement was Saturday to Saturday, seven weeks on, seven weeks off. And he said, oh, I mean seven days, not seven weeks. So, following hearing about the homicides on the news, he called Chelsea, who was Brantley's mother and that is Frankie Rodin's son, and he wanted to find out what happened, if the kids were okay, when he knew very well that they were. So they had a whole conversation and she had said something about them being at the hospital, and he said he ended up going back into the house and told Angela to watch Sophia and that he was going to go to the hospital to check on the children. And he went there. He went to the Adams County Hospital. He said all that he could really remember is when he got there that he talked to April, April Manly, who is Dana's sister, And he really can't remember in full what the conversation was, but it was something along the line as to what happened, and he said the hospital would not let him see the kids or even tell any information about them, so he was just kind of speaking with April about that. They asked him if somebody had come over in the following days to check on Sofia, and he said that somebody did, and he had contacted a lawyer about custody and eventually was granted custody of Sophia full custody of Sophia. And they asked him about the funerals if he attended the funerals, and he said he did, along with his dad and his brother. They had a joint funeral for all of them Roden family, and then Gary Roden had his separate funeral and they attended both of those, which, wow, I don't even know. They asked if they knew Gary, if they had met Gary previously, and Jake said yes, they had all gone on a hunting trip prior. They asked about his relationship with Chris Senior, and Jake said that he looked at Chris Senior like a second father and hoped that one day he would be his father in law. They asked Jake Wagner if after the homicides, in the days following the homicides, if they talked about what had happened, and Jake said no, and he said that he couldn't and he could not bear to think about what he was doing at the time, and he couldn't bear to think about what had happened without having immense guilt. They then talk about the guns and hiding guns and hiding them in these concrete blocks, and that goes on for a while. They go and they talk indeed detail about these different concrete blocks, how they made them, and all the details of that. So there was a lot of information there, but essentially they disposed of and got rid of all of the weapons that they needed to in order to cover their tracks. They then go on to ask Jake about Tabitha and the situation that happened between Tabitha and George, and he goes into detail about that. I'm not going to go into detail about it because we've already kind of discussed it, but he goes into detail about the fight that they got into and that Tabitha tried to take her son from the high chair and it turned into a big thing. She had gone outside to hide on the property. Angela Wagner was after her and it turned into a whole convoluted, hot mess of a situation and that ultimately ended in them getting divorced and a custody battle ensuing between Tabitha and George Wagner the fourth and then asked Jake about the house and where everybody stayed in the house, who stayed in his bedroom, and Jake said that Angela Wagner's bedroom was upstairs and sometimes Billy Wagner would stay there, sometimes he didn't, and there were times when Tabitha and George Wagner the fourth son would stay in the room with Angela. They then talked about how George and Tabitha got married in July twenty twelve, and they asked if there was ever a time that he or anyone else in the house believed that Tabitha had poisoned someone in the house, and he said yes. So he goes on to say he doesn't remember the incident very well, but Tabitha had had an argument of some kind earlier in the week, and then George had come home from being on the road, and then George and Angela and Tabitha and George's son ended up having some type of snavirus which they thought might have been food poisoning, and they thought that Tabitha had possibly poisoned food because she ended up not sick with the virus and maybe she had prepared some food. And the basis of that was basically George telling Jake that they suspected that Tabitha had poisoned them, which I personally think is unfound information. And I think if anybody in that house was doing anything, it was the Wagner's to Tabitha. Just my personal opinion, So I think it was probably merely a coincidence that they ended up getting food poisoning from something they ate, and Tabitha just didn't partake in whatever they ate. Because one of the people that got sick was her son, and there's no way that I think she would have intentionally harmed her child. They then talk about moving to Alaska and why they decided to move to Alaska. Jake said that they had been to Alaska in August of two thousand and seven and they had some interest in going back to Alaska, and then they decided to go ahead and move. And they asked him if he learned of them searching the Peterson Road property while they were on their way to Alaska, and he said yes, he learned about it because his grandfather had contacted them and said that they were searching the property. And then they asked Jake if they had any discussions as a family following the announcement that they had been searching the Peterson Family Road, and he said there was only a couple of times that they had family discussions. Only two times. One of them was before the homicides, and it was basically for them to try and agree on an alibi, and it was going to be that they were all home and they were all watching TV together. They then asked Jake about what he did once he got to Alaska. He talks about his job that he had, and they also had established a family church where they would all go to church from time to time. He would take Sophia to church regular and they had kind of established this new church as their family church, basically to show that they had moved to Alaska. They were kind of starting anew starting this new life and trying to put the horrificness of what they had done behind them. They then talk about a girl that Jake met who he started dating and he proposed to her after seven months of knowing her. Her name was Elizabeth. Her and Sophia got along really well, and Jake was ready to make this girl his next wife, or I guess he wasn't technically married to Hannah, so I guess I should say his first wife. So Jake and Elizabeth had decided that they were going to have a longer engagement. But then pretty shortly after that, Billy Wagner and Angela Wagner decided that they were going to move back and get out of Alaska. There were some job opportunities that they thought they were going to be able to get in Alaska, and they weren't able to. And the kids really did enjoy the snow and all in Alaska, but they had essentially been raised as farm children, and they very much wanted to get back to that. So that's why they decided that they were going to leave Alaska and they settled on Missouri, and with that to not have a long distance engagement, Jake and Elizabeth ended up getting married, and they got married, Jake says he thinks on March twenty third or twenty fourth of twenty eighteen. They asked if they had a honeymoon, and he said no, but they did have a wedding night, and the next day he left to go to Missouri. They all left to go to Missouri, and then they talked about the home that they had in Missouri. Who stayed there, and again it's Angela, Billy, George Wagner, the fourth George, his son, Jake, new wife, Elizabeth, and Sophia. So they're all crammed into this three bedroom home in Missouri. Then, of course, as with all Wagner relationships, things started to crumble and there was allegedly a thing where Angela told Jake that Sophia had alleged that Elizabeth had touched her, and eventually he confronted her over this. Now they also call her Beth Ann throughout this, So I'm going to use Elizabeth and beth Ann interchangeably. So he confronted her and they asked if he believed her when she said she didn't do anything, and he says that he cannot say that he did believe her, but he wanted to believe her, but he was really concerned with the sensitivity of the situation. Elizabeth had confided in somebody that she was close with in Alaska and basically said that there's no way that this is true, and that she was concerned about this even being brought up, and the premise and the reason for it being brought up. And it just very much seems that every woman that comes into a Wagner Son's life ends up with some type of accusations thrown at them in some way, shape or form. And I can only think of one person and one reason that this is happening. And in my opinion, again my personal opinion, I think Angela Wagner is driving the bus behind all of these accusations because she has a very odd obsession with her children and her grandchildren and she wants to have that control, and any other woman that comes in that threatens that control is a problem, and hence why she creates these narratives of abuse and them being bad people so that way she can regain her power and regain her control. So she basically turns everyone against them in order to keep that control, and that is a really, really sick person allegedly in my opinion. So then it ends up coming out that Sophia came forward and said that she made up the allegations because she thought that death in was a sense taking her father from her and giving her more attention. Now, again, Sophia was young, so there's no part of me that thinks that Sophia came up with this on her own and made up these allegations by herself. There's absolutely no way. There has to be someone behind the scenes pulling the strings. Again, that is just my opinion. So from there, they came up with the plan, and the plan was for Elizabeth to move to Nashville with a friend and they would basically get a fake divorce so that Elizabeth could get grants provided from the state because she wanted to go to med school. And then while she was in college in Nashville, they would occasionally meet up during the week and try to get to know each other better, like you got married, you don't know each other. I'm so confused by this. These people are so bizarre. But he said his plan was for her to go to Nashville and then they would play like they would continue the relationship, but then he would just ultimately break it off. And honestly, Elizabeth dodged a bullet with all of this transpiring the way it transpired, because she was eight thousand percent going to be the next victim of the Wagner family and you cannot convince me otherwise. So we are about halfway through Jake Wagner's testimony. I have about five hundred more pages to go, and I wish I was kidding. So we are going to call that good for episode five and next week, I hope that we are going to finish up the testimony of Jake Wagner and then we will get on to the next witness. We still have a lot to go. We still have to go through all of George's testimony as well, so we have a lot, a lot, a lot more to go on. So thank you guys for joining me for part five of Summer Series. I will see you next week for part six, and I will also see you later this week for a brand new unsolved cold case. You guys have a good one and I will see you then. Bye, don't you Cott