Summer Series 2025: Pike County Massacre: Part 7

Welcome to Summer Series twenty twenty five The Roden Family Murders, also known as the Pike County Masscer. We're going to be discussing the murders of Dana Roden, Christopher Roden Senior, Kenneth Roden, Gary Roden, Frankie Rodin, Hannah Hazel Gilly, Hannah Rodin, and Christopher Roden Junior. Let's go ahead and dive right into Summer Series twenty twenty five. All right, guys, we are jumping into part seven of the Pike County Massacre. We are still in the trial of George Wagner, the fourth There is a lot more to go. We just went through all of Jake Wagner's testimony and we are going to start today with the following days of the trial and the different people that they had testifying. The next up witness is a man named William Bosdiak, and he is a shoe expert. He is a forensic consultant and examiner and he examines footwear and tire impression. He has a lot of experience. He has been doing this job since nineteen seventy three and he's also written different books about footwear impressions and He actually testified as well at the Oklahoma City bombing trial as well as the OJ Simpson trial. So this guy has a lot of really good experience, a lot of first hand knowledge. He knows his stuff when it comes to shoes and impressions and all of that. So he goes into detail about how he kind of approaches looking at different shoe prints, and there's a lot of things that go into this. This is definitely its own type of science. It of course takes into account the shoe itself, the soul itself, the person that's wearing the shoe, because the difference in the way that people walk, the way that people might pronate or overpronate. I myself am an overpronator. I'm going to leave a different impression in a shoe than somebody else will. So all of that is really really important in the way that he goes about his business. And then he also says that a little stone or rock or a piece of gum can completely change the imprint that a shoe leaves at a scene. There are two different types of impressions you can get, and those are two D and three D impressions. So the three D prints is like a print in the soil, in the sand or in the snow, and two D can be from a print in dust or in blood or different dirt. So he then talks about the different techniques that they use to enhance these prints. Whether it's two D or three D, they use different methods. One of them uses a chemical that has hydrogen peroxide and it turns the impression purple, and that really enhances the characteristics of the impression. So they can dig in deep and try to figure out what type of shoe, this is, how the person walks, size of the shoe, all of that kind of stuff can be determined from the print enhancement. And there is a database for all of this. For people that do this for a living, there's a database. So they are able to go in to this database where you can see a bunch of different shoes and the unique tread patterns, and that way you can figure out what brand the shoe is and so on and so forth. So once they figure out what the brand is, they are able to get samples of that shoe, so that way they can do a side by side comparison to the actual prints that were left behind at the crime scene. And they very much go back and forth testing all of that. That is so interesting to me that there is an actual job where you're looking at footprints and shoeprints all day, comparing and contrasting to try to come up with the match. That is such a cool job. So he was of course brought in on this case and he was given the different lift impressions floor cutouts with the footprints that were left at the crime scenes, specifically at Chris Senior's home and Dana's house. So he ended up taking a photo of the impressions. He reviewed the different images, and then he went to a local Walmart and they still had the exact shoe in a size ten and a half and a size eleven, and he talks about how even though the shoe is the exact same, the sizing matters when it comes to the tread. So that to me, again is so interesting. It is such a specific type of science and analysis that it's really cool that there are people out there that are able to do this and are able to tie all of this back to the scene. Now, on cross examination, they questioned him, of course, because they are defending George Wagner the fourth and they asked him, do you believe that George Wagner was wearing these shoes at the crime scene, and he says he can't for sure. There was some slippage noted in some of the prince meaning that their foot could have slid in the blood, so he really isn't able to tell if George Wagner the fourth was or was not wearing these shoes at the scene. The defense does go pretty hard on him, and I don't really know why they're going so hard on him with their cross examination because Angela Wagner admitted to buying the shoes for the boys, so there's no discrepancy that these shoes were in fact used at the scene. So I really don't know why the defense is going so hard. But they are questioning him, and he is holding his own He knows exactly what he is there to say, exactly what he found during his investigation, so he holds true to everything he is saying. The next witness up again is agent Schnyder. We have heard from him before and he talked about meeting with the victims' families for working with Jake on the plea deal. And they go into how on April seventeenth and April nineteenth. This individual participated in the profit with Jake and he was one of the ones that was there when Jake Wagner confessed to everything, and based on the information that came out during the meeting on the seventeenth, that's when they executed the search warrant at the Flying w Farms and that is where Jake told them all of the different firearms were located. And they went into details about the truck that was used the night of the murders and how they modified and altered the bed of the truck and all of that. Jake went into all the detail regarding all of that on this particular date with this agent. They then go back into all the ballistics and bullet fragments and residue and shotgunshells and all of that, all the different ballistics that this case so heavily heavily relies on. They went all over all of that with Adrin Schneider and that is pretty much it for the day. So we are now on day thirty four and Angela Wagner herself takes the stand. So they start the testimony flat out asking Angela if she is guilty of being involved in the murder of these eight people, and she said that yes, they planned and prepared for the murders together. She said that although she wasn't present, she helped kind of cover things up afterwards, and they asked her who all was involved, and she said Billy, Jake, and George and herself, and then they kind of go down the rabbit hole of her and Billy's history together. She said that they have been married since January twelfth of nineteen ninety one. At that point in time, that was thirty one years. And she talked about their first home that they lived at from nineteen ninety three to twenty fourteen, and she said that Jake was around six months old when they moved in to that first house and the boys had gone to public school for two or three weeks when they were in earlier grades, and then they decided to homeschool. And she basically just said that she thought the schools were overcrowded and that George and Jake would not get the one on one type of attention and help that they needed. So that's kind of how it became that they were going to be homeschooled. And she said that both of the boys were very close. They would go fish hunt do farming stuff together, and she said that they were closer to her than they were to Billy. And she said that Billy taught them survivalist skills, basically how to steal, how to destroy different properties for insurance payouts, and how to keep things afloat in that way. She said between two thousand and seven and eight, Billy would go and steal couches and they would basically pull up at night and take the couches. I don't really know where they took these couches from, if they took them from stores or people's homes, front porches, if the couches were left outside. I don't really know the details of this. But Angela ended up being arrested for shoplifting, and they were both arrested Angela and Billy for receiving stolen property, so they were no strangers to the law. Angela said she would often be the lookout driver when Billy was going around and stealing things. She said that she would often steal from Walmart tract or supply and she would just put things in her cart and then leave the store, which is such a bold move. People do that all the time, and I can't even imagine having the nerve and the balls to do that. She said she had been to Chris Senior's home a few times for different family gatherings and parties, and she had also been to data Roden's house at some point when she lived in the trailer that she had lived in previously before she went to the new one. And she also talked about how she knew that Billy was learning some different things from Chris Senior about the drug trade and had a girl marijuana, and at one point in time, Billy Wagner had told her that she wasn't allowed to talk to Christenior. So I think that's really interesting, Like what exactly were you hiding. She then talks about how George had gone and Jake had gone to a decent mechanic school and they both got their CDLs, And then they questioned her about the arson at their home that they previously lived in, and she said that it was an intentional fire. They burned the house down on purpose. They also burned a trailer and a semi truck and a garage, and she said that Billy, Jake, and George all knew about this and they were all kind of in on things together. And she said that she admitted that they ended up moving things out of the house, stuff that they wanted to keep and stuff that they wanted to protect before they actually set the fire, so this was all part of their plan for insurance money. She also says that she doesn't know how the fires were started, but they knew that they were going to happen and they were sent intentionally. So she said after this, they bought a semi and then they moved to the Peterson Road house in March of twenty fourteen, and they did put the house in Jake and George's names, and she said the reason for this was to help them build up some credit. She did say that Billy Wagner kind of intermittently would live there at the Peterson Road Home, and there was also times that he would live over at the Flying w because his dad had gotten sick and he wanted to be there to help take care of him because his dad was very very special to him. So Angela said for that reason she was okay with him kind of intermittently living at the Peterson Road home. She said that they ended up burning the semi for insurance money because they needed to pay some bills and she doesn't remember exactly what all they paid off with it, but she does remember that they use some of the money that they got to pay off Billy's truck. She admitted that Billy had addiction problems trouble with pills. He was always willing to try anything he struggled with taking these diet pills and he would use them to help stay awake while he was doing his trucking, and she said that she and George also took them occasionally as well. And the pill that he took was called at apects, which is basically a stimulant. It can be abused, and it's definitely not something that you should be taking because it is dangerous and if you abuse it, it could harm you. They then ask about Tabitha, and Angela says that Tabitha was around ten and George was thirteen when they first met, and they kind of would they were friends, and then eventually they kind of lost contact, and then they reunited as teenagers when tab was still in high school, and then she came to live at the Wagner House. George at this point in time was eighteen, and Angela had found out that Tabby was molested as a child and it wasn't reported, and Tabitha because of this, decided not to have a relationship with her family. And Angela said that at one point Tabitha had cheated on George, and I guess at that point, Angela said that George gave her an ultimatum and made Tabitha choose between her family and his, and she picked his. Tabitha started to become worried after her and George got married because it was taken her so long to get pregnant, so she thought something was wrong. But they eventually did have their son in twenty and thirteen, and then Sophia, Jake and Hannah's baby came along four months later. She talks about thinking that Tabitha tried to poison them, including her own son, meaning Tabitha tried to poison her own son. This is what Angela thinks. And there's also reports of Angela thinking that Tabitha put dog hair in her coffee, and basically she recounts what happened where Angela said, oh my god, Jake, there's dog hair in my coffee, and she said Tabitha laughed about it, which, honestly, if that happened, I'm also going to laugh too, because Angela is just straight up not a nice person. She also talked about how she suspected Tabitha of stealing from them. She then talks about the final night, the night that Tabitha finally left the home for good. And we've heard different versions of the story, but according to Angela, Tabitha had a episode. She was screaming, she was yelling, she was basically going crazy. This is what Angela is saying, and George was trying to calm her down. Angela was holding the baby and Tabitha was very much asking Angela give me my son. I want you to give me my child, and Angela had told her that I'm not going to give him to you until you calm down. And then Angela said the baby was crying. She said she threw a piece of wood at Tabitha and then Tabitha left. She mentioned getting a gun, and Angela said that she only mentioned getting her gun out basically to snap Tabitha out of whatever she was going through. But she said she never planned on harming her or doing anything with it, and she never actually went and got the gun. So then Tabitha runs out of the house and Jake and Angela are out there trying to find her, and then they saw her pushing her bike up the hill, and then Jake and George went to find her and try to calm her down. They then end up getting divorced from there, and George gets awarded full custody and Tabitha only has supervised visits, and she said that Tabitha only came to visit their son three times after their divorce was final. Angela then goes into the relationship between Jake and Hannah May and she said they had started seeing each other and then they got serious about a year after that, and she said that the relationship with Hannah was pretty good. It wasn't perfect, but overall it was pretty good. Angela said that Hannah always wanted a baby and always wanted to be with Jake. She said that Hannah was fifteen or so when she got pregnant with Jake's baby. Angela said one day she came home from work and Jake asked his mom to go buy a pregnancy test. And Jake had asked his mom to go buy a pregnancy test for Hannah and was initially really concerned about Hannah being pregnant but eventually ended up going to the clinic with Hannah. She actually brought her there and then there was a mutual friend of theirs that saw Hannah may at the clinic, and Hannah freaked out because she was worried that her parents were going to find out and that they would also panic because she was young when she got pregnant. Angela said that after the baby was born, if Jake was home, Hannah and Sophia would stay with them, and then one Jake was out on the road, Hannah would stay with her mom and dad. She did say that Sophia had a good relationship with Dana, but it would eventually get to the point where, according to what Angela says, didn't want to go over there. And she said she didn't really have an opinion on Charlie Gilly or Corey Holdron, who were both men that Hannah may Roden had dated after her breakup with Jake. So at this point in time, when Jake and Hannah break up, Jake starts recording the pickup and drop offs that he does with their daughter Sophia to Hannah, so he's recording these recording their interactions essentially, and Angela said she didn't know that he was recording them, which I don't believe for a hot second that she didn't know and she wasn't listening to the recordings. I'm sure she was listening to the recordings. And she also had gone with Jake a couple of times to actually pick Sophia up, so it would just make sense that she knew about these recordings. Because this is where stuff gets complicated, because Sophia eventually starts acting out anytime she has to go over to her mom's house and they start to question why. And there was a time that she said George went with Jake to pick up Sophia and Sophia was filthy. She doesn't remember the exact interaction or if it really happened, but it was previously testified too that that did happen. She then goes on to say that Billy, George, and Jake all knew that she was monitoring the different social media accounts. She had Tabby's password, she ended up getting Hannah May's password. She was wild. She said. She took hundreds, if not thousands, of screenshots, and she would monitor the different accounts for months and months and months on end. She would take the screenshot. She would show them to George any information she could get that she could use against Tabitha in the possible custody battle. She screenshot at it. She did all of that in her evening time on her iPhone or her iPad. She was literally stalking their social media. She also admitted that she saw the message from Hannah May about they'll have to kill me first. She said she took a screenshot of it, and she also admits that she had first asked Hannah to spy on Tabitha when they were both living at the Wagner family property. She then said that she first started to become concerned when Sophia would come home from the Rodent family's home and she would start hitting her cousin Bulvine, and she was just acting not herself. She wasn't sleeping well, she was grouchy, and she just said that she started acting differently, and then she said, Jake Woold bade Sophia. He noticed that she was puffy in some of her more delicate areas, and that she had a smell to her and there was some redness that she had that would come and go, and they thought maybe that she was being abandoned a little bit, and her diaper wasn't being changed frequently, leading to the type of diaper rash and redness that they were seeing now. Following this, according to Angela, Sophia had made some claims against a family member of the Rodent family that basically caused Angela to start looking up some child abuse stuff online. Sophia apparently did not like going there, and she kept every time she would go and come back, she would have the whole diaper rash problem, and so on and so forth. I do not know if this is true, if she did come back dirty, if she had an odor. This is all what the Wagner family has said, and there's been nothing to substantiate these claims, so this could all just be them adding fuel to the fire for doing what they did. There's never a reason in life to kill eight people. If you think that there is something severely going on with child abuse, you go to the cops. You don't take it into your own hands. And I really don't think in any of this that any of this stuff has been proven to be true. So it's all just really really interesting. Angela had told Billy about all of this stuff, and of course had told him you know, if you're ever around the Rodent family, just kind of keep an eye out. When you go to Chris Senior's house, kind of keep an eye out. And Billy had said that he didn't really see anything suspicious from anybody, except one time he saw Frankie kiss Sophia on the mouth. And Sophia was a little girl and that is her uncle. So little kids do like the open mouth kind of kiss. They're affectionate with their loved ones. He thought that that was a red flag, but I don't necessarily think that that's a red flag. But to each their own, I guess. There was also another incident where Sophia had put her finger into a muffler of a four wheeler and it ended up burning her finger. So they just used all of this as adding fuel to the fire to kind of hatch this plan to murder these eight people. Instead of going to the police, instead of taking Sophia to a doctor, they just decided that they were going to brutally kill eight whole people to solve their problems. So, in my opinion, if you really thought something was wrong, you would have gone the opposite direction. You would have gone to the police. You would have gone to a doctor and said, you know, she's having all of this redness. We're concerned that she might not be getting her diaper change frequently. We're concerned that there might be some type of abuse going on. That is what you do in those type of situations. You don't decide to brutally murder a family of eight people. So she said that's kind of what led to them coming up with the murder plan in January of twenty sixteen to basically murder Hannah. And she said that Billy is the first one that suggested it, and Angela had suggested that they turn Christenior in for the grow operations, thinking that that might give Jake a little more leverage on the whole situation with Sophia, and Billy said, we're not going to do that. We're not going to throw him under the bus. Instead, we're going to brutally murder him and his whole family. These people make absolutely no freaking sense. He didn't want to turn his quote unquote best friend in for growing marijuana, but he was okay with murdering him. I cannot wrap my head around that sense of thought. I just do not understand these people, Angela said, that Billy very much convinced her that they all needed to be murdered because if they left some people alive, they would know that it was the Wagner family and they would come and shoot them. So they knew that more than just Hannah needed to be murdered. She then said that Jake and George were basically told about the plan, and they all talked about how they would never talk about the murders afterwards, they would do it and they would go on with their lives. And she said they also talked in great detail about how they were going to cover up the murders. They were going to get rid of all of the things that they used in the murders, the mask, the gun, the gloves, anything else that they used in the murders. How they were going to dispose of it. Billy basically told her everything to buy. They were very paranoid about talking about the murders beforehand. When they would discuss it, they would always turn on background noise to kind of drown out anything that they were talking about. They basically were paranoid from the beginning that people were going to catch on to what they were up to and be like eavesdropping on them, and they were right because right after everything transpired, they got the heck out of Dodge and moved to Alaska, and they were bugged the entire time being listened to, and that is how we are here today telling the story. She talks about going to the Walmart to buy the shoes and how she used George credit card to purchase it. They have video of her going into the parking lot and she claimed that, yes, that is my car going in and out of the parking lot. She talks about forging the custody agreement document. She talks about using her mom's notary stamp to sign it and for Hannah may Road in signature on it, and all of that, which I don't even know why you go as far as to do something like that. You are just so complicit in all of this, when you involve yourself in such a horrific way. All it would take for all of this to not have happened, for one person in the Wagner family who knew the plan and knew what was going on, to say, guys, this is wild and insane. We need to not do this. And not one of them, not Jake, not Billy, not Angela, not George stood up and said, we can't do this. This is not a normal thought. We shouldn't be doing this. Not one of them had the common decency to realize what a bad idea this whole thing was. She talks about the truck that they use the night of the murders. She said that the reason that they wanted to use a different truck is because the diesel truck that they had would have been too loud. At least that's what Billy Wagner said, and she said the night of the murders, she asked Jake and George if they really wanted to go through with it, and Jake said yes. She does say that at some point that she said, everyone's heart wasn't necessarily in it, but they decided that they had to do it. They had to do to protect Sophia. So they very much just were in this mindset that all of these bad, horrible things were happening to Sophia, and in order to protect Sophia, they had to kill these eight people. Unfortunately, Angela said that Billy basically made up his mind and it was going to happen. He was super bossy, and none of them were doing things fast enough for his liking. He basically was telling Angela everything that she needed to do to make it look like Billy's phone was at home so that way they wouldn't be tipped off to the fact that Billy was really at the Road family home, killing eight members of the Rodin family. So it's just insane that this all kind of transpired the way it did. Angela then said she had a lot of emotions the night that the murders transpired, and she even had a thought in her mind to try to jump in her car to try and go stop them. And she said she very much was surprised that it all went down the way it did, that they went through with it. And Angela said she didn't ask who was killed, who killed two, and she said that they didn't tell her. So she claims that she didn't know how many of the Roden family members were killed until she saw it on the news. And there were also a couple other people that potentially could have been present that night that could have also been victims if they were there. Corey might have been staying there that night with Hannah Chris Junior. There was going to be somebody potentially there that was a friend of his spending the night, and there was also a potential cousin that might have been staying with Hannah that night. But for whatever reason, those three things didn't pan out and those people were in present. So instead of an eleven person homicide, we had an eight person homicide, which is still just so tragic and horrible. She said she personally didn't go to the funerals, and they did have a conversation with Sophia about how her mommy had gone to heaven to be with Jesus, and that conversation occurred about the week after the murders, and she said Billy was very adamant about certain things after the murders. He would constantly tell them what to do, what to say, and it was just exhausting. He ended up getting frustrated being at the house and ended up going back to his mom's house to stay. So we are now on day two of Angelo Wagner's testimony, and the day starts off with her talking about how she very much regretted the fact that Jake and George got involved in the homicides, but she didn't express any personal regret for the homicides themselves, but she very much said that she regretted involving her sons in all of this. She then kind of reflects on after the fact, when they had left and Jake and Beth had gotten together, Beth Anne and they were going back and forth, and she thought that they would maybe potentially be arrested for the homicides. The prosecution then asked if they had any plans for what would happen to the kids if they were to get arrested, meaning the grandkids, and the plan was for Billy's mom and sister to take the kids and raise them. And then she goes on to say that Billy Wagner never should have been a father and he really wasn't the best, and he taught his kids how to steal and commit crimes, and she also said that he taught her those things as well. Now, you guys know how I feel about Angela Wagner. I feel like her testimony, all that she is saying right now is very much painting herself in that kind of victim mentality. I personally think Angela Wagner is pulling the strings behind the scenes a lot more than she is saying. I think she is very much placing the blame on Billy Wagner. Now, there could be a world where she enters into a relationship with Billy Wagner and he is a horrible person, and he's manipulative, and he is maybe abuser of some sort in some way, shape or form, maybe mentally, verbally, we don't really know, and she just kind of falls under his trap and she's kind of isolated. She ends up having children with him, and then they end up becoming a product of what their father is. But there's also a world where Angela Wagner on her own isn't a great person, and she marries Billy Wagner, also not a great person, and they come together and they're just not good people, raising two people that they turn in to also not good people. There is a world where both things can be true. And I personally believe my own opinion that that is the fact here because the way Angela Wagner treated the women that came into her son's lives and the relationship she had with her sons and the relationship she had with her grandchildren, it's just interesting. It's different. It's borderline obsessive, and it just doesn't strike me as a normal type of mother son relationship where you're rubbing your son's back when he has a wife and a baby. It just doesn't make any sense to me, and I fully believe that testimony from Kabitha that that stuff would happen on the regular. Back to the testimony, she then talked about when she saw a news alert on the TV that Jake was going to plete guilty to the charges, and that is when she officially kind of sort of decided that she also was going to go ahead and Fleete guilty as well. Now, at this point in time, she doesn't know what Jake has told law enforcement. She doesn't know what he has said, but she did agree to talk to the state and she talked to them for about four hours. She agreed to thirty years in prison and to testify against George Wagner the fourth and her husband, Billy Wagner. She understands that there will be no early release for her and she will be eighty two by the time she gets out of prison. She talks about how much she does love her son George and hopes that he loves her too, even though she's testifying against him. She says she very much regrets involving him in all of this stuff, and she said it's extremely hard to testify against him. So that is it for the prosecutions questioning of Angela Wagner, and we are now going to get into the cross examination. And I really do want to say, I think the defense does a really good job in their cross examination of all of the witnesses. Honestly, I think considering the topic of who they were defending, I think they did do a pretty good job overall. I mean, they very much had their work cut out for them, for sure. So they talk about her mom's involvement and how she basically pulled her mom into an eight person homicide, and she said, yes, I did do that. They also touched on the fact that she didn't really agree to plead guilty until Jake decided he was going to plead guilty. So she was very much willing to kind of throw her mom under the bus in all of this and not take a plea deal until Jake decided he is going to take a plea deal. So they were kind of, I think, trying to get in the kind of mindset that Angela Wagner was in where she was willing for her mom to go down for something that she involved her in and not really say anything. But the only reason she decided to come forward and accept a plea deal was so that Jake didn't have to testify against her in a trial. So this is a very convoluted, hot mess web of family dynamics that I just cannot even fathom or understand at this point in time, because none of this computes for me. None of it computes at all. These people are just a wild breed. They then talk to her about her upbringing, which I find so interesting because I always think that someone's childhood truly forms who they become as an adult. What kind of situations they get themselves into as an adult, I think are a direct reflection of how they are raised. So she moved out of her house that she lived in with her parents at the age of seventeen. She had graduated high school, she had a job, and she had received a scholarship for college. She claimed that her dad was mentally and physically abusive to her and her mother, and she said at fifteen years old, she ran away and after she graduated from high school, she had sex for the first time and her dad found out and he was pissed because she was not married, and I guess that was a big no no in the Wagner family back in the day. So she ended up kind of trying to get her life on track, and her dad suggested that she joined the military. So she enlisted in the Air Force, and she was in the Air Force for over a year, and she was unfortunately sexually assaulted twice while she was in the Air Force, and she ended up believing because of this. And I do want to be clear, I do not think Angela Wagner is a saint, but nobody deserves to be sexually assaulted once twice anytime at all. So for that, I do deeply feel very very badly for her. And who knows if this is why all of this other stuff that transpired triggered her the way it did, even if the claims were unfound, Even if they were untrue, we do not know how those two sexual assaults that she went through shaped her as a person and formed her into the adult that she is today. We do not know her trauma. So after she left the Air Force, she came back to Ohio, where she met up with Billy, who was somebody that she had previously known because her parents had done business with Billy's parents farm, and they ended up getting married and they end up having children and so on and so forth. We know the story about that. They talk more about the homeschooling and just kind of the general upbringing of Jake and George and the dynamics. And there was also at one point a time when the family took in a baby, and the baby was named Jordan, and they basically took this baby in because the mom was trying to get her life in order, and they were basically taking the baby to help aid this mom in her getting her life together. But once all of that transpired and the mom was finally in a position to take her baby back, Angela didn't want to give the baby back, which is just so odd. So Angela ended up basically being told that she needed to give the child back and if she didn't, that police or CPS was going to be brought in and involved. Now she denies this, but there has to be some type of truth to it. Then they asked about how the family was essentially trying to profit off of the murders following everything and creating the GoFundMe, talking about how Hannah had been viciously taken and they were the ones behind the GoFundMe, and they were also the ones behind the murders. Angela said it wasn't a scheme to get money or profit. It was just kind of the thing you did after a tragedy. You would set up a GoFundMe and people would send you money. They then asked her about the different hacking and Facebook stocking that she would do of everyone's accounts, and she had a whole password book with other people's passwords in it. She is wild. She is truly wild. I can't even remember my own passwords, much less anybody else's. She also admits to having George Wagner the Force plenty of fish dating website account and password, which again is so so bizarre. They even asked her at the end of this testimony why if she had all of these concerns about Sophia possibly being neglected or abuse, they didn't take her to a doctor, and she says she really doesn't know why. I personally think that because a lot of this was unfound and they were just kind of creating these scenarios and these things in their head. I'm sure there might have been a time or two that Sophia came back to their home and had diaper rash because she was a toddler. But I really don't think that it was all that they made it out to be, and I think their paranoia really just got the best of them. Another thing they very much liked to focus on during this questioning of Angela is that they had a favorite son, which was Jake Wagner. Now Angela says that this was not true. They did bring up some certain instances. There was a particular instance where Billy Wagner had choked George for one reason or another. And then they also brought up the fact that George got a truck when he turned of a certain age and it was four thousand dollars, and when Jake turned of that age he got one, but it was sixteen thousand dollars. And they claimed that essentially, Angela Wagner decided to take a plea deal so Jake Wagner would not have to testify against her after he took his plea deal. So again, this is such a tangled web of family dynamics. I don't even know what to think about it. So they then go in to if Angela feels like they should have gone through with the murders, and she says yes, because Billy told her it was the only way. So again she's very much putting the blame on Billy. Now, interestingly enough, a lot of the times that Sophia would come home and she would be dirty and they would be kind of concerned about her hygiene and her cleanliness, they were already in the midst of planning the murders of the Rodent family, or at least the murder of Hannah. So that really doesn't jive with the reason that they did this, because it was the culmination of her being dirty, her having the diaper rash constantly, and the potential alleged sexual abuse that they thought was happening. That is why they decided to go through with the murders. And the dirtiness on all was happening in the midst of the murder. So did that just add fuel to the fire, I'm not really sure. She then says that the family did not escape Ohio and moved to Alaska because of the murders because they were trying to run from anything. She completely denies those claims. They then go back and forth about some of the details of the murders and how Billy didn't use a silencer when he was first at Chris's house, and there was some concern about that because Frankie lived very, very close and likely possibly maybe could have heard the shots that rang out, because we know Frankie was awake at the time that he was killed. So there is really no telling what Frankie really heard or knew about or any of that. But they asked her how she slept the night of the murders, knowing that this was happening. How did she sleep, and she said she had a really busy day, she worked, and then she took a sleeping pill and went to sleep, so she slept great. Essentially, I cannot even imagine, ever, ever, ever, knowing something like this was going to be transpiring and just going to sleep, drugging myself with a sleeping pill and just going to sleep. I just cannot. She said she does regret involving her mother, Rita, and she does in general feel bad about taking the lives or being complicit in taking the lives of eight people, and she knows that there are no words that can make that better and bring those people back, but she still claims that they never talk details about the homicides, who killed two, who who who was involved, any of that kind of stuff. She claims she has no idea about any of that, which I'm not entirely sure is true. She talks again about how difficult it has been to testify against your son, George Wagner Befourth, and this whole thing just stemmed from helping her family. Billy said, they really had no other choice, And I really I would love to see really what went on behind closed doors, what conversations really happened. I do believe a big chunk of Jake's testimony because I feel like he offers up a lot of information, So I do feel like he is honest. But I also half wonder if he's protecting his mom in a lot of this and they just decided that they were gonna make Billy the fall man. Essentially, I don't know. I can't even fathom any of this doing this as a family going through with this. And although George did not kill anybody, he was present throughout the whole thing. He was part of the cover up, part of the conspiracy, And it's just insane to me that all of this transpired the way it did. I will never stop saying it. This family has the most interesting dynamics I think of any family I've ever covered during Summer series. And that says a heck of a lot considering my other summer series where Lori Valo and Dan Markel and the crazy, crazy crazy Adlson's I don't even know. This is a whole new ballgame. But that is Episode seven. We officially got through all of Angela Wagner's testimony. She testified for about three days and that is what she had to say. Next episode, we're going to get into some of the following witnesses. We are slowly but surely trucking through this trial. We have George Wagner the forest testimony coming up as well, so that is going to be oh so interesting. So I will see you guys later this week for a brand new unsolved cold case, and then I will also see you next week the same time for the next part of the summer series, which I am confident is going to last the entire summer long. So I hope you guys have a great week and I will see you then. Bye.